NHS England gone

Steer said:
Interesting graph that looks at NHS waiting times starting around the same time that the Tory / Lib Dems took charge and made the changes that are now being reversed.

If anyone tells you that politics does not matter, or does not affect them, then they are wrong - unless by some miracle they are never ever ill.



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COVID obviously a factor, but the lines were all heading in the wrong direction quickly before that became an issue.
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A compliant media didn't help.

Labour were still in for the first 6 months when I started in DH and I remember the headlines whenever A&E waiting times went over 4 hours, or ambulances took longer than 30 mins to arrive etc.

Funny how they no longer bat an eyelid at people being in A&E for 24 hours or ambulances not turning up at all.

It beggars belief.
 
I have a concern that this government is going to put it's faith in data and IT solutions. The scourge of Blair's labour was a target culture. This has the impact of services focusing on their targets rather than their core purpose. I'm not liking the noises I am hearing. IT solutions in the civil service tend to be overcomplicated garbage.
 
I don’t know enough about how it works, but it is almost for certain than an organisation set up by Cameron’s Tory government was done so with ulterior motives.

Probably along the lines of make it hard for them, let them struggle and we can make the case for “the market” doing a better job.
 
call me cynical but this surely is just rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

All the roles are moving under the new entity and there isnt a hope in hell Starmer is going to make 10,000+ people redundant
 
Rock Osborne said:
I've worked in the NHS for over 25 years, all patient facing roles, mainly within the bottom bands pay wise. I am continually surprised/annoyed at the amount of managers/executives and IT people in higher paid jobs who don't ever see patients, nit saying they don't deserve good money, just think we all do.
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It seems pretty well known that it's a bloated organisation. I guess this has changed a lot but 15 years ago it was the second largest employer in the world (behind the Chinese army)
 
Let me get this right.

The entirety of the left/centre left was appalled when NHS England was established under the Lansley reforms. It was derided as unnecessary, bureaucratic and undemocratic. The reforms as a whole were seen to be heralding privatisation by the back door.

So, now, a Labour Prime Minister is abolishing NHS England and returning its responsibilities to a Labour Health Secretary, who can be held to account by a democratically elected House of Commons. Reasons for celebration on the left, no?

Apparently not. Presumably simply because the PM is Keir Starmer and the Health Secretary is Wes Streeting.
 
Billy Horner said:
Let me get this right.

The entirety of the left/centre left was appalled when NHS England was established under the Lansley reforms. It was derided as unnecessary, bureaucratic and undemocratic. The reforms as a whole were seen to be heralding privatisation by the back door.

So, now, a Labour Prime Minister is abolishing NHS England and returning its responsibilities to a Labour Health Secretary, who can be held to account by a democratically elected House of Commons. Reasons for celebration on the left, no?

Apparently not. Presumably simply because the PM is Keir Starmer and the Health Secretary is Wes Streeting.
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Perfectly described.
 
Hicktonpen10 said:
Can I ask what they actually contribute please?
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There's lots to consider when discharging someone, such as legal frameworks, future staffing requirements, and costs, that's before whether future provider can meet needs, but after listening to today's nhs news, at times they does appear to be lots of people doing very similar jobs, when perhaps not needed
 
Rock Osborne said:
There's lots to consider when discharging someone, such as legal frameworks, future staffing requirements, and costs, that's before whether future provider can meet needs, but after listening to today's nhs news, at times they does appear to be lots of people doing very similar jobs, when perhaps not needed
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I think you have hit the nail on the head there. "Lots of people doing very similar jobs". Symptomatic of the public service in my experience.
 
Billy Horner said:
Let me get this right.

The entirety of the left/centre left was appalled when NHS England was established under the Lansley reforms. It was derided as unnecessary, bureaucratic and undemocratic. The reforms as a whole were seen to be heralding privatisation by the back door.

So, now, a Labour Prime Minister is abolishing NHS England and returning its responsibilities to a Labour Health Secretary, who can be held to account by a democratically elected House of Commons. Reasons for celebration on the left, no?

Apparently not. Presumably simply because the PM is Keir Starmer and the Health Secretary is Wes Streeting.
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Not at all.

I think there are merits to bringing the NHS back under direct ministerial control.

I can’t be celebratory about 10,000 job losses though. These are real people’s lives being turned upside down, not just numbers on a spreadsheet.
 
Billy Horner said:
Let me get this right.

The entirety of the left/centre left was appalled when NHS England was established under the Lansley reforms. It was derided as unnecessary, bureaucratic and undemocratic. The reforms as a whole were seen to be heralding privatisation by the back door.

So, now, a Labour Prime Minister is abolishing NHS England and returning its responsibilities to a Labour Health Secretary, who can be held to account by a democratically elected House of Commons. Reasons for celebration on the left, no?

Apparently not. Presumably simply because the PM is Keir Starmer and the Health Secretary is Wes Streeting.
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NHS England didn't become what was feared. The bigger complaints were about an unnecessary reform and shifting commissioning to GPs via CCGs and abolishing PCTs and SHAs. The SHAs are pretty much back now as ICBs.

It was setup so the government could blame the NHS itself for NHS failures but the public saw through it and still blamed the government. NHS England was also useful in campaigning to the government when they needed more funding. That's something we will lose.

NHS England is not the same as the organisation that was originally setup. It has since incorporated other national bodies such as NHS improvement, NHS digital and Health Education England. The majority of the jobs being done will still need to be done. I'm sure there will be some duplication between NHSE and DHSC but it won't be much.

13k people at NHSE seems like a large organisation but there are 1.5m employed in the NHS and they are overseeing £185bn of annual spending so it's a really tiny amount.

It can only be seen as a political move about regaining control and removing a layer that can challenge the government because the savings will be tiny.

*Apologies for all the abbreviations but that's the NHS for you.

Edit: I don't necessarily think getting rid of NHS England is a bad thing but it seems like it's just doing "something" rather than doing something about the actual problems the NHS has.
 
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Hicktonpen10 said:
I think you have hit the nail on the head there. "Lots of people doing very similar jobs". Symptomatic of the public service in my experience.
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But could definitely do with more boots on the ground, with more money fir them. Not just the Dr's and nurses, but auxiliary and support staff, let's hope possible savings are sent this way
 
A lot of people’s lives and careers are going to be affected by what these politicians decided today. I should hope they realise the implications of what they are doing because a couple of interviews I watched today seemed to be a bit unfeeling towards workers interests.
 
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