Next Derby owners face extra £1m legal bill as Middlesbrough and Wycombe compensation claims head for ugly court battle

clay said:
The year when we finished in 7th, one point behind DCFC. The fact that there may also be additional years we could seek compensation for doesn't somehow reduce our right to seek compensation for that year alone.


I think you've misunderstood. If we can convince a court that, on balance, DCFC's cheating was sufficient to give them an extra one point advantage and deny us a play-off place, then the court has to assign a value to that place. The expected value of a play-off place is the value of winning the play-offs divided by our odds of winning: if you think all four teams have equal chance, we'd expect a quarter of the proceeds from promotion; if we are rank outsiders with a 1 in 20 chance of going up, the expected value is one-twentieth of the proceeds of promotion.



They can if they want. We're not stopping them. Boro's claim isn't reduced just because other people could also choose to claim.
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No, I don't think I have misunderstood anything. Even by your analysis I fail to see how it passes basic causation tests. There is no way that we meet the standard of proof or but/for type causation tests with this.
 
newyddion said:
Derby’s actions cost us a playoff place. Why does that put US in a bad light?

It may irritate Derby fans who think that our actions could be harmful to their club.. but it was their owners actions that was harmful to our club, not only missing out on the chance of a £100m promotion but effectively wasting all funds spent getting into that position.

As for irritating the leagues governing body? WTF? Asking them to govern and ensure teams follow rules that they set/laid out is surely the whole point of them existing.

I would be more critical of Derby County and their actions before anyone else including the EFL. Boro/Gibson are not at fault here.
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I'm with Adi on this and feel the club is asking legal people to play fantasy football regarding which positions we would have finished in.
 
fmttmadmin said:
There was a lot of other stuff that is disturbing and more recent than Morris that may be I cannot legally relay.
Derby and not Boro have made this personal. That is the way it looks.
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OTHER STUFF?!?! that sounds very ominous!

stuff that has been directed at our club.. sounds like they have cast aspersions over our transfer dealings/financial situations.
 
Derby have a cast Iron defence, TP was our manager, they can cite what happened in the play off's the previous season with TP in charge, we rolled over and let Villa tickle our belly, nothing would have changed had we made the play off's again so definitely no notional share of a premiership jackpot.
 
There's been a lot of mud-slinging from people linked to DCFC around how the Gibson O'Neill group of companies benefits from a lower Corporation Tax bill because of MFC's tax losses, and suggestions that the club somehow invoices the rest of the group for these tax losses and then records them as revenue for FFP purposes.

That sounds like absolute BS to me (like the way some of our fans used to claim the money Gibson puts into the club costs him nothing because it comes off his tax bill!) but I'm open to seeing the evidence if anyone has it.
 
clay said:
There's been a lot of mud-slinging from people linked to DCFC around how the Gibson O'Neill group of companies benefits from a lower Corporation Tax bill because of MFC's tax losses, and suggestions that the club somehow invoices the rest of the group for these tax losses and then records them as revenue for FFP purposes.

That sounds like absolute BS to me (like the way some of our fans used to claim the money Gibson puts into the club costs him nothing because it comes off his tax bill!) but I'm open to seeing the evidence if anyone has it.
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I haven’t come across this but like you think it sounds like utter nonsense. It would be evidenced in the accounts and it simply isn’t there.
 
I’m not sure (as I posted earlier) that Gibson is seriously pursuing £45m from Derby for a lot of the reasons ADI has posted.
However he very much is directing the sun ( rather than shining a light) on to the EFL to review penalties for cheating FFP, and to make sure that future cheats can’t escape action and penalty.
Derby’s penalties are too little too late.
Stoke must be penalised NOW for what they have done in the last year.They have lost over £130m in 3 years and set themselves up to look great from now on. Scumbags.
The actions however will mean MFC will be scrutinised closely by everyone from now on.

I think Gibson had a nightmare from 2016, but I actually stand with him on this action and also applaud his appointment of Wilder.
 
Corco65 said:
Derby have a cast Iron defence, TP was our manager, they can cite what happened in the play off's the previous season with TP in charge, we rolled over and let Villa tickle our belly, nothing would have changed had we made the play off's again so definitely no notional share of a premiership jackpot.
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We would have defo gotten beat 3-0 by Villa in the final. What are playoffs worth in ticket sales and merch tho? Wembley final is £3m total plus a sold out Riverside plus extra shirt sales & merch.

£5m feels about right
 
newyddion said:
We would have defo gotten beat 3-0 by Villa in the final. What are playoffs worth in ticket sales and merch tho? Wembley final is £3m total plus a sold out Riverside plus extra shirt sales & merch.

£5m feels about right
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Interesting, however, I think if anyone deserves to be compensated it is those clubs who have been relegated as a result of Derby not being punished appropriately at the time they were found guilty, all the rest is too much conjecture.
 
I think when Morris called Gibson a 'fanny' in public was a big mistake.

If we look back, Gibson doesn't take action unless he knows he has a case. In the 3 points debacle George Carman said it was a nailed on win for us. We only pulled out because the FA said if we won the cup they wouldn't put us in Europe.

I kind of think some sort of legal threat was made about the Sheff United game.

I think Gibson is trying to ensure noone does this again. I would expect him to take similar action based on teams accounts in the future. Bausor is on the EFL board now so I'd think that isn't a coincidence. He will be passing on Gibson's thoughts.

All in all I am sure Gibson knows what he is doing. He's probably got all other owners cacking themselves.

We know he only has our interests at heart and he will throw his money around to protect it.

So buckle in. Looking forward to Derby not being sold and not coming out of administration before the end of the season and getting another points deduction for next season.

That should keep them honest.
 
edinboro said:
I think when Morris called Gibson a 'fanny' in public was a big mistake.

If we look back, Gibson doesn't take action unless he knows he has a case. In the 3 points debacle George Carman said it was a nailed on win for us. We only pulled out because the FA said if we won the cup they wouldn't put us in Europe.

I kind of think some sort of legal threat was made about the Sheff United game.

I think Gibson is trying to ensure noone does this again. I would expect him to take similar action based on teams accounts in the future. Bausor is on the EFL board now so I'd think that isn't a coincidence. He will be passing on Gibson's thoughts.

All in all I am sure Gibson knows what he is doing. He's probably got all other owners cacking themselves.

We know he only has our interests at heart and he will throw his money around to protect it.

So buckle in. Looking forward to Derby not being sold and not coming out of administration before the end of the season and getting another points deduction for next season.

That should keep them honest.
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What? We pulled out of the 3 points deduction? Why would the FA not have put us in Europe? How could they justify that?
 
newyddion said:
What? We pulled out of the 3 points deduction? Why would the FA not have put us in Europe? How could they justify that?
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No, we didn’t pull out. We lost the case. Carmen was a vanity appointment as counsel. He was a criminal advocate whose brilliance was in front of a jury. He was not suited to an essentially administrative, rule based hearing.

The notion that Gibson only goes after winners is fundamentally wrong. He doesn’t and he is highly unlikely to win this one.
 
I thought we pulled out of a potential European court of justice trial because the league and other clubs said they wouldn’t deal with us if we went through with it?
 
nowthen said:
I thought we pulled out of a potential European court of justice trial because the league and other clubs said they wouldn’t deal with us if we went through with it?
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You may be talking about the threatened appeal to the court of arbitration for sport? I don’t think that was anything more than a rumour.
 
Adi_Dem said:
No, we didn’t pull out. We lost the case. Carmen was a vanity appointment as counsel. He was a criminal advocate whose brilliance was in front of a jury. He was not suited to an essentially administrative, rule based hearing.

The notion that Gibson only goes after winners is fundamentally wrong. He doesn’t and he is highly unlikely to win this one.
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I thought we’d lost the case. Wasn’t it essentially they make up the rules.. so you don’t have a leg to stand on?
 
Adi_Dem said:
No, we didn’t pull out. We lost the case. Carmen was a vanity appointment as counsel. He was a criminal advocate whose brilliance was in front of a jury. He was not suited to an essentially administrative, rule based hearing.

The notion that Gibson only goes after winners is fundamentally wrong. He doesn’t and he is highly unlikely to win this one.
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We did pull out of a court case. The FA didnt allow non sporting authority remedies. It would have gone to CAS now.
 
I would have thought a case like this is unusual enough to be difficult to predict where it would head in terms of possible compensation.

Gibson is clearly annoyed and I would assume, had taken legal advice from folks who know more than us. It may be he doesn't expect to win but feels strongly enough to highlight the problems the efl created by acting so late. Damn the costs.
 
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