Neil Warnock on Brexit: I cannot wait to get out of the EU!

You said “If you don't like it, you can move is equally ridiculous.” I did not say that though you imply i inferred it was an option for all, i acknowledged it wasn’t, some have emigrated btw, you spun my words and you know it, you just wont admit it. I am happy with my words, your interpretation spun to a different outcome.... Fact

You clearly accept some firms will benefit just not many, time will tell, firms will adapt just like they did when we joined and as rules in the club changed. You know it, i know it, you just like it less, which is fine. Maybe it affects you more, some people oppose change, some embrace it, those that embrace change they can’t affect tend to do better in my experience of life.

I am not trying to school anyone, just give my opinion. Oh by the way I was a negotiator and a reasonably successful one too, so don’t try to pretend you are the Mr big of the negotiating world. From your part blinkered stance you have one opinion, from my part blinkered stance I hold a different view. That is how negotiation works. Brinkmanship is what the EU are doing too you know, you can’t accuse your country of it and seriously suggest the EU are not either, that is utter crock but i am sure you realise that, it just doesn’t suit your angle thats all, but thats fine.

All just very empty words built on nothing more than hope coluka. Believe more. Embrace change. Make a success of it. The truth is that you’ve been sold a pup. You were scammed. There is no reasonable analysis that supports your empty words. That’s not my fault.

Also: I didn’t accuse the UK of brinkmanship. That’s not what they’re doing at all. I said you fundamentally misunderstand the history of and current status of this negotiation if you think it is brinkmanship.
 
A few points

1. Democracy means that I have THE RIGHT to try to get a decision I don't agree with overturned, that is not working against "democracy" it is the very essence of it.

2. The vote itself as has been frequently cited would have been ruled illegal if it had been a "binding" referendum that it wasn't means that it cannot be ruled against. Irony even Alanis wouldn't have mucked up.

3. Hard "Brexit" that we appear to be careering towards was wanted by very few that voted. The 48% were told to "get over it" (again anti-democratic language) it was entirely possible to agree to a soft Brexit with leaving the EU but maintain membership of many beneficial arrangements not least the Customs Union. This was thrown away by Theresa May's "red lines". This clusterfukk is the result of Brexiteers yet already we are being told that it is the intransigence of "Remainers" that are subverting the triumph of our exit.

Again you have the right to, never said you didn’t. I just think it is a waste of your time and energy, that would serve the country better by accepting the outcome and embracing change and trying to make it work for the best

As for the legality, it wasn’t illegal though, so pointless going their wasting time and energy. what was it Gino Di Campo said to Holly Willoughby, if my auntie had wheels she would have been a bike!

As for a hard Brexit, I doubt that will happen, negotiating a treaty is not like going to Currys and buying a TV. Fear is the tactic the EU use they are trying to bully, by all means continue your fight. It is a waste of time and energy though and you know it really. As a country we have to get on with it, that is the cold hard facts that will not change no matter whether you are proved right or wrong.
 
Again you have the right to, never said you didn’t. I just think it is a waste of your time and energy, that would serve the country better by accepting the outcome and embracing change and trying to make it work for the best

As for the legality, it wasn’t illegal though, so pointless going their wasting time and energy. what was it Gino Di Campo said to Holly Willoughby, if my auntie had wheels she would have been a bike!

As for a hard Brexit, I doubt that will happen, negotiating a treaty is not like going to Currys and buying a TV. Fear is the tactic the EU use they are trying to bully, by all means continue your fight. It is a waste of time and energy though and you know it really. As a country we have to get on with it, that is the cold hard facts that will not change no matter whether you are proved right or wrong.

And this post proves it without question. You genuinely believe the EU is bullying us 😂

Oh and it was won by fraud, data protection breaches and there can be little doubt that there was third party state interference too. But yeah if my auntie had wheels....
 
All just very empty words built on nothing more than hope coluka. Believe more. Embrace change. Make a success of it. The truth is that you’ve been sold a pup. You were scammed. There is no reasonable analysis that supports your empty words. That’s not my fault.

Also: I didn’t accuse the UK of brinkmanship. That’s not what they’re doing at all. I said you fundamentally misunderstand the history of and current status of this negotiation if you think it is brinkmanship.

Empty words, nah Adi, but if you want to think that fine, I am sure I was not sold a pup either. I was not stupid enough to buy the rhetoric and lies from either side In truth. You do me a disservice to suggest that. I am sure you did not buy the lies that came from remain, the fear of financial armageddon that never came. Lies abounded from both. It was the most unnecessary referendum in history, but if you play with the public, you can’t assume anything. There is brinkmanship of a fashion in all negotiations, you will know that only too well. Each side pushes as far as they can and ultimately there has to be give and take when it gets to the point of no return or you walk away, you know the consequences either way when negotiating.
Anyway, Covid has come along and for me that is far worse than brexit and has skewed either group, as the country is broke anyway.
 
Empty words, nah Adi, but if you want to think that fine, I am sure I was not sold a pup either. I was not stupid enough to buy the rhetoric and lies from either side In truth. You do me a disservice to suggest that. I am sure you did not buy the lies that came from remain, the fear of financial armageddon that never came. Lies abounded from both. It was the most unnecessary referendum in history, but if you play with the public, you can’t assume anything. There is brinkmanship of a fashion in all negotiations, you will know that only too well. Each side pushes as far as they can and ultimately there has to be give and take when it gets to the point of no return or you walk away, you know the consequences either way when negotiating.
Anyway, Covid has come along and for me that is far worse than brexit and has skewed either group, as the country is broke anyway.

The financial Armageddon predicted only comes when the transition ends. We aren’t there yet. I’m afraid you were sold a pup.
 
It never looked "really likely" that Leave would win. I was surprised and delighted when the vote came back. Turkish positioning did not change anything. Dirty tricks were played on both sides of the campaign; it seems they always are these days.
As regards veto and referendums, let's remember there was no referendum for Lisbon or Maastricht. Why are you so sure Adi that there would be one for future seismic changes. In my opinion there would not be.

Like so many things on this board it is assumed that how people feel about groups of very different things are all exactly the same.
Good post coluka
There'll always be an England
 
And this post proves it without question. You genuinely believe the EU is bullying us 😂

Oh and it was won by fraud, data protection breaches and there can be little doubt that there was third party state interference too. But yeah if my auntie had wheels....

Trying to bully us in business terms, yes. It is business, they are desperate for the UK to not have a position of strength. Surely you are not that silly. It is what people and firms do, they use their power to exert dominance to get their way. You know that happens in your work life. A solicitor friend of mine stated the key to success in court is understanding the strengths and weakness of a case and maximising the power held on your clients side to press home the weakness of the other side, she likened it to a version of bullying by playing on weaknesses of her opposing solicitor and clients weakness. She has admit winning cases she had no right to and losing some too mind. My experience in negotiating is that works quite well depending on your starting position. I am sure the UK are doing just the same and the outcome will be a bit of give and take with a deal that both parties claim to be the winners, chillax
 
The financial Armageddon predicted only comes when the transition ends. We aren’t there yet. I’m afraid you were sold a pup.

Yet you argue we are, as a no deal brexit seems to be your suggested likely outcome, you are jumping the gun, lets see we both could yet be wrong, who knows
 
Trying to bully us in business terms, yes. It is business, they are desperate for the UK to not have a position of strength. Surely you are not that silly. It is what people and firms do, they use their power to exert dominance to get their way. You know that happens in your work life. A solicitor friend of mine stated the key to success in court is understanding the strengths and weakness of a case and maximising the power held on your clients side to press home the weakness of the other side, she likened it to a version of bullying by playing on weaknesses of her opposing solicitor and clients weakness. She has admit winning cases she had no right to and losing some too mind. My experience in negotiating is that works quite well depending on your starting position. I am sure the UK are doing just the same and the outcome will be a bit of give and take with a deal that both parties claim to be the winners, chillax

As I said, further demonstrating a fundamental misunderstanding of the negotiations and respective positions of the two sides.
 
The eu will try and bully us. We’re the first, but won’t be the last to leave their club, then it will collapse.
Can’t wait until it’s over.
Problem with remainers and labour voters is they short themselves in the foot and know they missed a good opportunity. They had a decent chance and put corbyn in charge. I think that if burnham got the gig then the future might have been very different. They went to the dangerous place of ‘to far left’ .
 
Yet you argue we are, as a no deal brexit seems to be your suggested likely outcome, you are jumping the gun, lets see we both could yet be wrong, who knows

Where have I argued that we are at the end of the transition period?
 
And this post proves it without question. You genuinely believe the EU is bullying us 😂

Oh and it was won by fraud, data protection breaches and there can be little doubt that there was third party state interference too. But yeah if my auntie had wheels....

Adi. You do lurch to despair and disaster with scenario and conclusion.
You really don't know how "it was won" and have no more certainty than anyone else of what the outcome will eventually be - and not against the impact of a status quo.
You are so sure about the "almost certain outcome that is coming our way". You have been certain of so much along the way.
The truth is none of us can be sure of the outcome and it is unhelpful to imply we can.

I would be frustrated if I was a committed Remainer and I do respect Muttley's first point that in a democracy you should have the right to try and peacefully overturn a decision.
You can believe me or not, but I would have accepted a 52:48 Remain if that had happened.
I believe all but a small minority would have too.
But it didn't and it is incredibly draining to hear the disaster scenario on full volume from the fanatical few.

I'm not going to keep going on this, as it consistently sees posters who often agree polarised with increasing animosity on this issue, which is more than a shame.
 
As I said, further demonstrating a fundamental misunderstanding of the negotiations and respective positions of the two sides.

Time will tell, as the saying goes, it could be
As I said, further demonstrating a fundamental misunderstanding of the negotiations and respective positions of the two sides.

Was James Hargreaves a relative per chance? He was good with spinning. You are making judgemental statements about my view that you presume, quite wrongly, but hope others will latch onto in this matter. No worries mind its a free world. Think about the many contracts you will be able to negotiate, post brexit ;) try and have your glass half full, it will help in the long (y)
 
People's desires and their interests do not always overlap, to elide the two is disingenuous.

As for the benefit - well, British SMEs can invest in the three new markets, British companies can offer their services without tariffs/non-preferential treatment, British citizens can work there without visas, can rely on their public services without discrimination. Not to mention the cultural benefits of having closer links to these countries.

These are all valid points. Now be objective and weigh them up against the negatives. The increased unskilled immigration which causes competition for jobs, houses and public services. The export of jobs from the UK to those countries which is a benefit for the big businesses but a negative for the workers. The dilution of UK vote strength by having additional members. The additional cost to the UK of those countries being net receivers.

I don't doubt that we, as an economy, benefit from trading with Romania but the vast majority of those benefits are for global companies having access to cheap labour, middle class Londeners wanting cheap cleaners or human traffickers after an easy route for their "products". There are more negatives that individuals in the lowest economic group will suffer because of that trade.

Then answer honestly what you think the result of a referendum asking us whether or not to allow Romania etc. to be EU members would be.
 
Adi. You do lurch to despair and disaster with scenario and conclusion.
You really don't know how "it was won" and have no more certainty than anyone else of what the outcome will eventually be - and not against the impact of a status quo.
You are so sure about the "almost certain outcome that is coming our way". You have been certain of so much along the way.
The truth is none of us can be sure of the outcome and it is unhelpful to imply we can.

I would be frustrated if I was a committed Remainer and I do respect Muttley's first point that in a democracy you should have the right to try and peacefully overturn a decision.
You can believe me or not, but I would have accepted a 52:48 Remain if that had happened.
I believe all but a small minority would have too.
But it didn't and it is incredibly draining to hear the disaster scenario on full volume from the fanatical few.

I'm not going to keep going on this, as it consistently sees posters who often agree polarised with increasing animosity on this issue, which is more than a shame.

Actually, I do know how it was won. It was won and it had all of the features I described. To accept a decision on the basis that those factors may not have played a part is a ludicrous position to adopt.

I’d have accepted any result that was delivered fairly and with a certain outcome. The 52% (demonstrably) didn’t all vote for the same thing and we are by any analysis being pushed along to a particular conclusion. To deny that is frankly naive.

And yes I am very, very certain as to the outcome of a no deal Brexit. Any right minded person ought to be. Everything I have been certain of so far has come to pass so yeah I’m pretty confident about that. There is simply no argument on the leave side. None. Except fish. And even that is a red herring. It can be dressed up as much as you like but Brexit was and is a scam. We are about to impose economic sanctions on ourselves at a time of extreme economic downturn. It’s abhorrent.
 
Time will tell, as the saying goes, it could be


Was James Hargreaves a relative per chance? He was good with spinning. You are making judgemental statements about my view that you presume, quite wrongly, but hope others will latch onto in this matter. No worries mind its a free world. Think about the many contracts you will be able to negotiate, post brexit ;) try and have your glass half full, it will help in the long (y)

I am not the one spinning. All I’m hearing back from you is ‘believe more’. It’s empty. Completely empty.
 
Where have I argued that we are at the end of the transition period?

You spread doom and gloom and post about the dangers of any type of brexit. You referred to no mandate for no deal, as Indeedido implied, there was less mandate for remain. You have no power or authority to change the outcome. Brexit will happen I think no deal is less likely than you seem to, time will tell. The best outcome for the country is to try to work with the outcome not fight something that will happen and can not be stopped. We have left the EU. I believe a deal will happen, both sides will claim to be the victors. We will not be the last to leave either, that is the EU fear that the UK becomes succesful that is why they wish to ‘bully’ us to spread fear to the likes of Italy and others.The EU is like a controlling partner. Sometimes leaving is the right thing to do.
 
Here we go - accusing the EU of bullying. They are just protecting themselves and who can blame them? Johnson et. al. were forever going on about their oven-ready deal. Shame they don't even have an oven.
 
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