Multiple deaths in Channel dinghy accident

jam69

Well-known member
It seems a lot of people on here want this people smuggling to go on unabated.

Surely the problems in Afghanistan or anywhere else should be sorted in that country itself (and if that comes at a cost to the UK so be it) not via more smuggling of people across the channel. This method of migration is just going to worsen the problem.

These people smuggling gangs have been given carte blanche in France and these are the consequences.
Can you show me where anyone on here has said they want people smuggling to go unabated?
It shouldn't be too hard you said it's lots, unless you just made it up?
 

Smogonthethames

Active member
I just find it incredible that two of the most advanced countries on the planet,with all the advanced technology available and supposedly very educated people, cannot work together to prevent women and children from climbing into a overcrowded and completely useless dingy, on route to a horrific death.
 

Nero

Well-known member
It seems a lot of people on here want this people smuggling to go on unabated.

Surely the problems in Afghanistan or anywhere else should be sorted in that country itself (and if that comes at a cost to the UK so be it) not via more smuggling of people across the channel. This method of migration is just going to worsen the problem.

These people smuggling gangs have been given carte blanche in France and these are the consequences.
You must have missed the big investigation into the 30 people who suffocated to death in a lorry in 2019. Just normal people fro Vietnam wanting to make a better life for them and their families. Irish/Romanian gang were sentenced to murder.
 

1finny

Well-known member
I just don't understand why people are blaming the UK government for this tragedy when the French police literally sat back and watched as a smuggling gang took these people out in the Channel in a raft.

that’s probably because you do little or no research

Some migrants want to come to UK. Not for us to judge why. We accept half as many as the French take and about a sixth that Germany take.
The ‘legal process’ to get in is harder, less transparent and more complex than it needs to be.
Little wonder people take risks.

In reality it seems typical that when a tragedy like this occurs people seek ‘absolute’ blame.
These people are human beings in a perilous position because of where they were born. Governments and citizens with any humanity would work together to find a solution.

Sadly ‘humanity’ is a concept no longer recognised by many.
 

KDG

Member
If you haven't you need to see what the Greek's have been doing to people trying to cross from Turkey after the Turkish government encouraged them.

What is really sad is countries using people risking their lives as a political weapon against their neighbours.

The UK and France need to get together and make this safe, accept its happening across the whole of Europe and ensure innocent, desperate lives are not lost.

Long term the West needs to build bridges with the East and make sure everyone can feel safe in their country/home. How we can have the technologies and advances we do but we still have countries and people suffering like they do.
 

newusername

Well-known member
...there is political capital to be gained by their inhumanity. Sad but true but some people are just so full of hate they'd rather argue political points than worry about people drowning.
Absolutely.

We have to be clear it isn't about numbers, or being swamped etc.

Government figures are that 32,000 applications for asylum were made & of those about 21,000 entered the country via boats, and as I said earlier there are around 125,000 applications pending.

In February this year the government extended the British National Overseas visa to approximately 5,400,000 Hong Kong residents, that's over 70% of its 7.5 million population.

The current government position on asylum is pure dog whistling to racists about Muslim immigration.
 

BlindBoyGrunt

Well-known member
It was disheartening to hear David Blunkett on the radio this morning lauding his success in closing down asylum routes when he was Home Secretary and saying we have to be tough on migration otherwise we'd end up with PM Farage.
So instead we do Nigel Farage's work for him and Farage claps his hands and says job done.
What a f*****g cop out.

The other day on the radio there was another MP (didn't catch his name) to whom it was suggested that if we didn't sell s**t loads of weapons to SA and they didn't bomb Sudan, then fewer refugees would be created. His answer? "Well if we don't, somebody else will"
Another f*****g cop out but this one suggests that we know it's wrong but there's profit to be had.
 

ChrisTheRed

Well-known member
We are one of the richest countries on the planet, of course we should play a prime role

We also take a significant number of refugees.

It isn't all about continually throwing money at a problem. It takes more than money. Pull your head out of the sand.
 

HiredGun123

Well-known member
Heartbreaking.
Those poor desperate souls.
Who's to say if any of us were without hope we wouldn't attempt the same thing?

Might Brexit be partly to blame? Is it more likely that those that do make will get work because of the big shortage of low skilled workers and send that message home?

Indeed, it’s hard to put ourselves in that position. It’s hard to comprehend the desperation to try and cross the channel in that manner if you’ve never been in that situation.

I doubt the Brexit party is to blame, people have attempting to enter this country and other countries illegally for a long time and every once in a while it ends in real tragedy, due the nature of trying to do it, like this incident or in the back of lorries.

I don’t think anybody is pro illegal immigration per se. It’s dangerous, you don’t know who’s coming in or not. Besides, it is true that if they’re in France and considered refugees, then they’re safe from what they were fleeing, so there should be no need to try to continue to the UK. Maybe some are doing it because they know people here, maybe some because they hear there’s a good chance of getting housed here, healthcare etc.. probably a mixture of reasons…

But the truth is if you we had a family and in their situation, there’s every chance we might take the same risk.

Ideally there would be no illegal immigration, no people risking their lives and you know exactly who you’re letting into the country. But then ideally people wouldn’t be needing to flee their country.

Seems there’s never going to be a good solution because the world will never not be a mess
 

American_Mary

Well-known member
There’s a very simple easy solution that resolves the issue of genuine asylum seekers and would remove the need for 1000’s of people to undertake these dangerous journeys, and that’s to allow remote asylum applications at embassies in other countries, whilst the application is processed they would be offered the same support as they currently receive when they reach the U.K., temporary accommodation etc let’s not dehumanise these people and force them into potentially deadly situations that are totally unnecessary.
 

zzzzz

Well-known member
There’s a very simple easy solution that resolves the issue of genuine asylum seekers and would remove the need for 1000’s of people to undertake these dangerous journeys, and that’s to allow remote asylum applications at embassies in other countries, whilst the application is processed they would be offered the same support as they currently receive when they reach the U.K., temporary accommodation etc let’s not dehumanise these people and force them into potentially deadly situations that are totally unnecessary.
Not with you? Are you suggesting people apply and remain in the Country they need to leave?
 

American_Mary

Well-known member
Not with you? Are you suggesting people apply and remain in the Country they need to leave?
No they flee to a neighbouring country and apply at the embassy of the country they want to settle in, in this case the U.K., they would then be allowed to stay under the protection of the U.K. in that country or be resettled to a holding area in another safe country, I did suggest the 30k RAF beds in Cyprus as one such place, once they have been processed and asylum is agreed they are then flown to the U.K. or if it is rejected they are returned to the country where they claimed asylum.

In simple terms if you’re fleeing Syria the British Embassies in Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq etc become British soil and an application for asylum could be made to settle in Britain at those places without the need to board any boat or pay any people traffickers.
 
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zzzzz

Well-known member
No they flee to a neighbouring country and apply at the embassy of the country they want to settle in, in this case the U.K., they would then be allowed to stay under the protection of the U.K. in that country or resettled to a holding area in another safe country, I did suggest the 30k RAF beds in Cyprus as one such place, once they have been processed and asylum is agreed they are then flown to the U.K. or if it is rejected they are returned to the country where they claimed asylum.
Would need the co-operation of the temp host Country and they'd want to be funded for it.
Which is the single biggest reason France are letting them across.... they want payment from the UK to keep them in France and we won't pay.
 

American_Mary

Well-known member
Would need the co-operation of the temp host Country and they'd want to be funded for it.
Which is the single biggest reason France are letting them across.... they want payment from the UK to keep them in France and we won't pay.
Not if we settled them in Cyprus on our air bases which is the alternative.

That’s not true the French have no right detaining people in transit and no legal reason for doing so, to reach France you have to cross other sovereign states unless you’re seeking asylum from Monaco, Luxembourg, Germany, Belgium, Switzerland, Italy, Spain or Andorra, the situation isn’t one of payment it’s one of the right of every individual has to chose where they claim asylum.
 

zzzzz

Well-known member
Not if we settled them in Cyprus on our air bases which is the alternative.

That’s not true the French have no right detaining people in transit and no legal reason for doing so, to reach France you have to cross other sovereign states unless you’re seeking asylum from Monaco, Luxembourg, Germany, Belgium, Switzerland, Italy, Spain or Andorra, the situation isn’t one of payment it’s one of the right of every individual has to chose where they claim asylum.
Not a 'simple solution' then.
Detention centres are just that, prisons.

And you're contradicting yourself in suggesting people are detained while their application is processed but then stating "the French have no right detaining people"

Not having a pop at you...... it would be fantastic if there was a simple solution but there isn't.

Nobody has told me yet why the UK is worth the life threatening trip across the sea instead of staying in France.... or Germany where they seem much more welcome. Other than 'they might have relatives here'

Anybody know? Surely that's the first question.... why is it worth doing it?
 

Paintolerance

Active member
As a starting point we need to stop the narrative that we are being invaded by a bunch of chancers desperate to bleed our welfare state dry. And let's not pretend that that is not the narrative set by Farage, Patel, The Mail etc. It is.

Secondly, let's not kid ourselves all asylum seekers choose the UK. Quite the opposite. It takes very little research at all to understand we take way less than France & Germany. We are not under invasion here.

Thirdly, maybe not treat these desperate people as a political football. Let's treat them as humans.

Next, when saying these people are safe, stop in France (even though that is never going to be the 1st place they landed)...maybe consider that living in squalor in a tented town is not what they had hoped for for themselves and their kids, when leaving a house, a job, whatever, in their home country for fear of persecution.

Finally, no crocodile tears for a few days, until its off the front page, if you are then going to go back to banging the 'send em all home' drum.
 

BlindBoyGrunt

Well-known member
Nobody has told me yet why the UK is worth the life threatening trip across the sea instead of staying in France.... or Germany where they seem much more welcome. Other than 'they might have relatives here'
Many, many more do stay in France and Germany, but the UK are stingy with the number we are prepared to accept. What other reasons do you need other than language skills and relatives?
 
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