Multiple deaths in Channel dinghy accident

zzzzz

Well-known member
Many, many more do stay in France and Germany, but the UK are stingy with the number we are prepared to accept. What other reasons do you need other than language skills and relatives?
Still no reason to risk a life in a flimsy rubber raft, especially if France and Germany are as good.
But then I'm not in their shoes.
Just trying to understand the justification for here over all of the other countries they have to pass through.
 

JM14

Well-known member
We also take a significant number of refugees.

It isn't all about continually throwing money at a problem. It takes more than money. Pull your head out of the sand.
Other countries take significantly more, why shouldnt we step up?

Please tell me exactly why I need to pull my head out of the sand
 

JM14

Well-known member
Nobody has told me yet why the UK is worth the life threatening trip across the sea instead of staying in France.... or Germany where they seem much more welcome. Other than 'they might have relatives here'

This might be one reason

 

American_Mary

Well-known member
Not a 'simple solution' then.
Detention centres are just that, prisons.

And you're contradicting yourself in suggesting people are detained while their application is processed but then stating "the French have no right detaining people"

Not having a pop at you...... it would be fantastic if there was a simple solution but there isn't.

Nobody has told me yet why the UK is worth the life threatening trip across the sea instead of staying in France.... or Germany where they seem much more welcome. Other than 'they might have relatives here'

Anybody know? Surely that's the first question.... why is it worth doing it?
They’re not detained because they’ve volunteered and sought to apply for asylum, they’re free to go about their lives whilst waiting for process which is the complex issue, the problem was people drowning on dinghies not the whole immigration process.

The simple bit is changing the embassy status to allow asylum to be applied for there, you’re obviously not understanding the difference between entering a process willingly and forcibly being held in a place where you don’t want to be. I’m not having a pop at you but surely you see the massive distinction in being temporarily housed whilst your future is being decided and being detained in a country where you don’t want to be ?

Language is the primary one, look at where French speaking asylum seekers settle and English is the current Linga Franca, across many business, computing, etc if you could speak Swedish would you want to settle in Sweden or Norway ?

Having spoken with to asylum seekers across Europe they do it because they’re desperate and it’s only a minuscule percentage of misplaced persons that undertake the process of fleeing west and seeking asylum, they believe their best opportunity to rebuild a life is in the U.K. they speak the language, are familiar through film and TV of the culture, look at the Premier League etc as global brands that foster that familiarity, there are also existing communities and job promises, a myriad of reasons, the U.K. is far from the first choice for 99% of displaced people and you want to deny that 1% fleeing danger zones what they feel is their best chance to rebuild their lives.

If you had an Uncle with a business in Brazil, you spoke Portuguese and had a promise of work in Brazil would you get to Colombia and say it’s ok I’ll stay here ?
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
Still no reason to risk a life in a flimsy rubber raft, especially if France and Germany are as good.
But then I'm not in their shoes.
Just trying to understand the justification for here over all of the other countries they have to pass through.
are you though? You seem to be suggesting we shouldn't be taking in anyone? Which is pretty inhumane of you. You make a comment that France and Germany are as good. Agreed, which is why Germany takes in 6 more times refugees than us and France twice as many.

Do you not think we should do our fair share? Especially as we speak a language that is more useful in the Western world than those two? Would being able to communicate not be a factor you'd cling too if you were fleeing a warzone?
 

MolteniArcore

Well-known member
Still no reason to risk a life in a flimsy rubber raft, especially if France and Germany are as good.
But then I'm not in their shoes.
Just trying to understand the justification for here over all of the other countries they have to pass through.

You are presuming they have passed through many countries, presuming that they have not tried to claim asylum in these, presuming that their husbands aren't already in the UK, presuming that they can speak German / French, presuming a lot.

I'm not having a go but all we can do is deal in facts. They don't have to make a claim in the first safe country. The UK is a very desirable place to live. There are no legal routes to claim in the UK for them. So they cross the channel.

Family
Language
Job Prospects
Friends here
They know the UK army having occupied their country
Falso promises of help by the UK with the Afghan resettlement scheme so better chance of being accepted


Until you are living in an abhorrent camp in France with no other places to turn other than to die there, with your children or pregnant wife wasting away as winter approaches etc it might be worth risking your life to get to the UK.
 

zzzzz

Well-known member
are you though? You seem to be suggesting we shouldn't be taking in anyone? Which is pretty inhumane of you. You make a comment that France and Germany are as good. Agreed, which is why Germany takes in 6 more times refugees than us and France twice as many.

Do you not think we should do our fair share? Especially as we speak a language that is more useful in the Western world than those two? Would being able to communicate not be a factor you'd cling too if you were fleeing a warzone?
I am suggesting nothing of the sort and have said nothing that in the remotest to support that.

Take your pathetic childish attention seeking rhetoric elsewhere.

Not hard to see why you're the most reported person on this site.... by some margin.

Smalltown. Ignored.
 

zzzzz

Well-known member
You are presuming they have passed through many countries, presuming that they have not tried to claim asylum in these, presuming that their husbands aren't already in the UK, presuming that they can speak German / French, presuming a lot.

I'm not having a go but all we can do is deal in facts. They don't have to make a claim in the first safe country. The UK is a very desirable place to live. There are no legal routes to claim in the UK for them. So they cross the channel.

Family
Language
Job Prospects
Friends here
They know the UK army having occupied their country
Falso promises of help by the UK with the Afghan resettlement scheme so better chance of being accepted


Until you are living in an abhorrent camp in France with no other places to turn other than to die there, with your children or pregnant wife wasting away as winter approaches etc it might be worth risking your life to get to the UK.
Still doesn't tell me why leaving France or Germany is worth putting your children at risk of death in such numbers, and why it's all of sudden escalated to have recent record numbers several times over.... huge numbers all of a sudden.... something is afoot. To understand it is to get to the root of it and be in better place to stop them drowning somehow.

And just for the record in case other idiots like smalltown try and twist a genuine query into something more sinister.

I've lived and worked amongst the desperate in several countries where these poor desperate souls are fleeing from on and off for decades. It's heartbreaking to see.

I've seen the complete lack of hope from the very well educated who will can never see any chance of ever having even the sniff of opportunity to fulfil their potential. Fate has dealt them a hand of a lifetime of destitution and poverty. They see what we have in the West rammed down their throats constantly... more than ever, through the internet and who can blame them for wanting to get to the West.

I have and do help them in several ways and continue to support where I can. I could of course do more... we all could.
And if I had my choice I'd take more than 10 fold the numbers we do now into the UK..... and at least triple or quadruple our overseas aid contribution.
 

Brian Marwood

Well-known member
Still doesn't tell me why leaving France or Germany is worth putting your children at risk of death in such numbers, and why it's all of sudden escalated to have recent record numbers several times over.... huge numbers all of a sudden.... something is afoot. To understand it is to get to the root of it and be in better place to stop them drowning somehow.

And just for the record in case other idiots like smalltown try and twist a genuine query into something more sinister.

I've lived and worked amongst the desperate in several countries where these poor desperate souls are fleeing from on and off for decades. It's heartbreaking to see.

I've seen the complete lack of hope from the very well educated who will can never see any chance of ever having even the sniff of opportunity to fulfil their potential. Fate has dealt them a hand of a lifetime of destitution and poverty. They see what we have in the West rammed down their throats constantly... more than ever, through the internet and who can blame them for wanting to get to the West.

I have and do help them in several ways and continue to support where I can. I could of course do more... we all could.
And if I had my choice I'd take more than 10 fold the numbers we do now into the UK..... and at least triple or quadruple our overseas aid contribution.

Perhaps they are reassured that the risk is minimal by the criminals who they are paying.
 

American_Mary

Well-known member
Still doesn't tell me why leaving France or Germany is worth putting your children at risk of death in such numbers, and why it's all of sudden escalated to have recent record numbers several times over.... huge numbers all of a sudden.... something is afoot. To understand it is to get to the root of it and be in better place to stop them drowning somehow.

And just for the record in case other idiots like smalltown try and twist a genuine query into something more sinister.

I've lived and worked amongst the desperate in several countries where these poor desperate souls are fleeing from on and off for decades. It's heartbreaking to see.

I've seen the complete lack of hope from the very well educated who will can never see any chance of ever having even the sniff of opportunity to fulfil their potential. Fate has dealt them a hand of a lifetime of destitution and poverty. They see what we have in the West rammed down their throats constantly... more than ever, through the internet and who can blame them for wanting to get to the West.

I have and do help them in several ways and continue to support where I can. I could of course do more... we all could.
And if I had my choice I'd take more than 10 fold the numbers we do now into the UK..... and at least triple or quadruple our overseas aid contribution.
In the main they’re not putting their children at risk more than 90% of asylum seekers are married men hoping to get asylum granted and then their families can follow on the basis of that marital relationship.

According to official figures the numbers are 4% lower than in 2020 I don’t think there’s the huge upsurge in numbers but an upsurge in coverage driven by Patel and co.

We have that in common that we see and understand their potential to create a better life and 31k out of 26.7million want to come to the U.K. for that opportunity, by creating that opportunity of starting the process from an embassy we remove that need to take the desperate risks that these people are taking, it won’t stop the situation entirely but it would certainly have a massive reduction on numbers putting their lives at risk.

My personal opinion is that the Government have no desire to help these people and believe it would be a potential vote loser to be seen as facilitating immigration by making the process easier, if the will was there the means are available, what people forget is that a fairly high proportion of asylum seekers are already present in the U.K. through work, I believe of the first 2k Syrian’s awarded asylum 500 were working in London either at the Syrian embassy or in banking in the city, not saying their causes were undeserving but it does show that a fair proportion are not risking their lives to claim asylum.
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
I am suggesting nothing of the sort and have said nothing that in the remotest to support that.

Take your pathetic childish attention seeking rhetoric elsewhere.

Not hard to see why you're the most reported person on this site.... by some margin.

Smalltown. Ignored.
In case you haven’t ignored me yet: what are you suggesting? Because that’s certainly how it comes across
 

The_Tiler

Active member
No they flee to a neighbouring country and apply at the embassy of the country they want to settle in, in this case the U.K., they would then be allowed to stay under the protection of the U.K. in that country or be resettled to a holding area in another safe country, I did suggest the 30k RAF beds in Cyprus as one such place, once they have been processed and asylum is agreed they are then flown to the U.K. or if it is rejected they are returned to the country where they claimed asylum.

In simple terms if you’re fleeing Syria the British Embassies in Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq etc become British soil and an application for asylum could be made to settle in Britain at those places without the need to board any boat or pay any people traffickers.
Similar model to Australia.

They transport the migrants to an island, cant remember the name, and process their claims there. Either sent back or allowed into Australia.

Stopped the boat crossings within a year.
 

MolteniArcore

Well-known member
Similar model to Australia.

They transport the migrants to an island, cant remember the name, and process their claims there. Either sent back or allowed into Australia.

Stopped the boat crossings within a year.

Great idea but we have no agreement with other countries to ‘send the buggers back’. And from the tone of Johnson’s letter tonight I can’t see France agreeing to one!
 

MolteniArcore

Well-known member
See my link on first page.

Sadly that link doesn’t confirm that it was that boat, but it is surprising that the French police did nothing in that photo. Without knowing why though it is pure speculation - you can’t even tell if the pick up is occupied.

Are they allowed to try and stop then when outnumbered?

So many questions and sadly we have few answers.
 
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