Mr Bates vs The Post Office

40FootRoad said:
One bunch of crooks investigating another bunch.
Paula Vennels was a lady of the cloth in the CofE, who are infested with the Masons, as are the Met, and the Royal Family for that matter. This will be another whitewash!!!
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I don't think it will be a whitewash. I expect a couple of sacrificial lambs to be slaughtered.
You might even find the government get involved to try and get some brownie points before the election. At the moment they probably have enough plausible deniability to distance themselves and try to be the good guys.
 
Will_Graham said:
I don't think it will be a whitewash. I expect a couple of sacrificial lambs to be slaughtered.
You might even find the government get involved to try and get some brownie points before the election. At the moment they probably have enough plausible deniability to distance themselves and try to be the good guys.
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Maybe the Tories are already ahead of the game, Nadhim Zahawi appears in the drama. His appearance almost gave the impression that they give a hoot. Although Bates local MP was a Tory also. In the drama, Bates mentioned this, something along the lines of "he is nice for a Tory".
 
boroboy6872 said:
Watched the programme and am staggered

Just seen that the Met Police are now involved regarding perjury and perverting the course of justice throughout the Horizon Scandal

Have the Police been involved before now?
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Yes, 2 Fujitsu employees are under police investigation on the basis that they gave evidence against sub postmasters in the courts. The latest investigation seems to relate to the money falsely recovered from the sub postmasters and I would imagine is more at Post Office corporate level.
In all probability these investigations will be on hold until the conclusion of the Horizon IT Inquiry.
One Fujitsu employee under investigation is Gareth Jenkins. He has so far refused to give evidence to the Inquiry unless granted immunity from prosecution by the Attorney General. So far the head of the Inquiry has refused his request.
 
I remember reading about this when it all came out. It is absolutely scandalous and up there with the corruption involved in Hillsborough.

It makes me wonder how many other times this type of corruption happens. Myths persists in Britain about how things are.
 
The sub postmaster from Bridlington who was being played by Will Mellor had to pay the POs legal costs of £350k and ended up losing everything he had and having to declare himself bankrupt.

Few years later the PO lose in court yet the legal costs of £46m incurred by the sub postmasters class action have to be paid out of the compensation agreement of £58m - ie by the sub postmasters.

Pretty much sums up our justice system and this case. Make an innocent man bankrupt and an effectively a large government department get away scott free.

And now trying to take the CBE she should never have got from her - talk about small victories…..she should be in prison and her multi million pound taxpayer paid pension taken off her.
 
Anyone who said (in Court) the Horizon software was totally reliable should be taken to Court. Judges were relying completely on their statements to convict and they lied in Court on oath.

Some of most traumitised victims were not shown in the drama. Such as a 19 year old girl sent to Pentonville Prison (category 1 prison) who was traumitised from the experience (sharing facilities with murderers). Her parents offered to pay all the missing money but the judge said she was a thief and had to be punished. The girl was an employee of a Post Office, she was only in the job for a year. She needs regular counselling still.
 
Redwurzel said:
Anyone who said (in Court) the Horizon software was totally reliable should be taken to Court. Judges were relying completely on their statements to convict and they lied in Court on oath.

Some of most traumitised victims were not shown in the drama. Such as a 19 year old girl sent to Pentonville Prison (category 1 prison) who was traumitised from the experience (sharing facilities with murderers). Her parents offered to pay all the missing money but the judge said she was a thief and had to be punished. The girl was an employee of a Post Office, she was only in the job for a year. She needs regular counselling still.
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Yes I read that story. What I didn’t understand was she wasn’t a sub postmistress but just a clerk. Why was she blamed and not her manager of the branch’s sub post office? It also questions how many others were involved. So far 2700 have come forward inc 400 after the series was shown.
 
gregorgregorovich said:
Have they pursued any recourse? I hope they have and that they are successful.
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If you watch the programme you'll see that they've been pursuing this for the last twenty years or so. They were successful in one court case in a class action where the Post Office was ordered to pay 58 million but after legal costs were met they were left with only 11 million, which they divided up equally between the 555 participants in the suit.

They're still pursuing compensation for the actual costs incurred by all the falsely-accused subpostmasters but in another astounding and shameful move, the PO tried to argue that any of those that received part of the money from the class action settlement should have that deducted from any repayment of the actual money they were wrongly forced to pay to the PO. Luckily a judge seems to have thrown out that argument.

Then there's the overturning of the verdicts for those convicted in court for crimes they didn't commit, that are still being pursued. So far, only 93 out of over 700 convictions have been quashed.

At least the police have finally started taking an interest in this. And it's about time - the facts in this case were already pretty much established since the court case in 2019.

Post Office scandal: Met Police investigate potential fraud offences

The Metropolitan Police is investigating the Post Office over potential fraud offences committed during the Horizon IT scandal.
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Liamo said:
If you watch the programme you'll see that they've been pursuing this for the last twenty years or so. They were successful in one court case in a class action where the Post Office was ordered to pay 58 million but after legal costs were met they were left with only 11 million, which they divided up equally between the 555 participants in the suit.

They're still pursuing compensation for the actual costs incurred by all the falsely-accused subpostmasters but in another astounding and shameful move, the PO tried to argue that any of those that received part of the money from the class action settlement should have that deducted from any repayment of the actual money they were wrongly forced to pay to the PO. Luckily a judge seems to have thrown out that argument.

Then there's the overturning of the verdicts for those convicted in court for crimes they didn't commit, that are still being pursued. So far, only 93 out of over 700 convictions have been quashed.

At least the police have finally started taking an interest in this. And it's about time - the facts in this case were already pretty much established since the court case in 2019.

Post Office scandal: Met Police investigate potential fraud offences
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I was asking specifically about the couple HarryVegas knows. I watched the original Panorama documentary and knew about the court cases. We've recorded the drama and will probably binge watch it tomorrow night.
 
Nero said:
I remember reading about this when it all came out. It is absolutely scandalous and up there with the corruption involved in Hillsborough.

It makes me wonder how many other times this type of corruption happens. Myths persists in Britain about how things are.
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I’m not belittling hillsboroigh at all but I think it is way bigger than that tragedy given the scale and volume of those affected and how long it lasted.

I’d say it’s easily the biggest miscarriages of justice in uk history by a long way.

The scale is simply beyond belief and it touched every corner of the nation as well.
 
gregorgregorovich said:
I was asking specifically about the couple HarryVegas knows. I watched the original Panorama documentary and knew about the court cases. We've recorded the drama and will probably binge watch it tomorrow night.
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It's still ongoing mate. They were financially ruined and sacked for false accounting but avoided criminal records. Nothing settled as yet.
 
HarryVegas said:
It's still ongoing mate. They were financially ruined and sacked for false accounting but avoided criminal records. Nothing settled as yet.
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What about the will mellor character as he had to pay legal costs 200k plus as well as the sum 30 odd k that he “stole” what happens there then.
 
Jedi boro said:
What about the will mellor character as he had to pay legal costs 200k plus as well as the sum 30 odd k that he “stole” what happens there then.
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God knows. This is huge. It's a damning indictment on where we are as a nation. I used to be fairly tolerant and neutral about the royals. Not anymore. The existence of that institution at the heart of our country is deeply harmful in terms of our cap doffing to our 'betters' and trusting that they know better. They don't, and we need to stop blindly trusting those above us. The more we question these institutions and demand answers, the better off we will all be.
 
Jedi boro said:
I’m not belittling hillsboroigh at all but I think it is way bigger than that tragedy given the scale and volume of those affected and how long it lasted.

I’d say it’s easily the biggest miscarriages of justice in uk history by a long way.

The scale is simply beyond belief and it touched every corner of the nation as well.
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You’re probably right.
 
I never realised who was one of the post ministers at the time

Yes it was a Tory PM but it was during the comical coalition government the minister running the post office was a certain

Ed Davey hmm where he is now.
 
Fattyfoggon said:
I actually worked on Horizon software around 25 years ago does not surprise me it is a bit buggy fortunately I only worked on it for a few months and not on any of the fraud detection stuff thankfully actually the stuff were working on got binned when Labour got into power and stopped the majority of the project
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It appears that Michael Keegan, husband of Tory Education Minister @GillianKeegan, was the UK Chief Executive & Chair of Fujitsu, the firm behind the Horizon computer system during #PostOfficeScandal. I wonder why the Tories have failed to press for #justiceforsubpostmasters?
 
Zoophonic said:
Shouldn't take a TV drama to galvanise the country but it seems to have had that effect and I think the repercussions and criminal prosecutions against the PO will ensue. If anything this Government will want to be seen to do something now.
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Sunak I see is sabre rattling now. Whether that’s all show and no dough remains to be seen.
 
HarryVegas said:
God knows. This is huge. It's a damning indictment on where we are as a nation. I used to be fairly tolerant and neutral about the royals. Not anymore. The existence of that institution at the heart of our country is deeply harmful in terms of our cap doffing to our 'betters' and trusting that they know better. They don't, and we need to stop blindly trusting those above us. The more we question these institutions and demand answers, the better off we will all be.
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This is spot on.

The idea that high born people with posh accents know what's better for us plebs has been demonstrated over and over to be outrageously untrue yet people seem to keep voting for it based on a mix of fear and jingoism.
 
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