Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants
Well-known member
He’s just played in the biggest club game in south America for Boca, but he’s not good enough for us
. We should have brought two argies in to help each other settle.
Midfield
- Thread starter Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants
- Start date
. We should have brought two argies in to help each other settle.
Weird how players magically get 10x better as soon as they take the shirt off.
Playing against Man U doesn't automatically make you good enough. Lumley played that game too, and the fans new whipping boy McNair had a great game that day...
... and if historical goals against Cardiff are also "good enough" criteria.... Mowatt's scored 3 times.
Mayor Goldie Wilson
Well-known member
I think what people are getting is is that our midfield is ridiculously one paced and one dimensional - I think we can all agree on that - and it looks like we are going to add another very similar player in Dale Stephens. While Payero may not have been the answer, he would at least gave offered something different to the rest of our midfield at present. We never really got to know whether he would have been the answer though, as we know he didn't really get the opportunities to prove it. We can take from that that Wilder, who is far more qualified than any of us, decided he wasn't good enough, which is fine. What frustrates people though is that he was moved on to one of the most well know clubs in the world and was replaced with more one paced plodders who offer no creativity, when the club should really have been looking to bring in more creativity, especially when they knew Tavernier was looking to move. People aren't desperately pining for Payero, more a player with his profile, or what we were sold as his profile, to get people excited.
Oh and one more thing while we are on Payero, if he plays well in the run up to the World Cup, there is no reason why he wouldn't sneak into Argentina's squad. And wouldn't that make us look even better after the Djed Spence scenario last season
Andy_W
Well-known member
I've wondered this a few times, in the holding role, but I wouldn't be upset with him playing RCM, alongside Jones, and shifting Crooks over, or playing McGree.
The problem then is we're back to McNair at RCB, who doesn't look a patch on last year.
We could put Fry RCB of course. He still doesn't play out well enough, which is frustrating, as he's got the ability too. But either way he is a better defender than McNair, and him having Lenihan, Dijk and Jones all around him should give him some easy pass options.
I said earlier I'd try Jones in right midfield with Smith at wingback if he is to persist with the formation. Jones is still far from convincing defensively but fast enough to cover from midfield. Smith is experienced in the position so would hopefully be more solid.
AD in defence behind him.
AD in defence behind him.
ThatFragranceGuy
Well-known member
They were brought in to strengthen attack and provide a source of creativity that isn't jones. I presume from way wilder talked we have been close to deals several times but they've either fallen through or gone elsewhere for whatever reason. I agree we have this issue season after season but we have no continuity; Agnew, woodgate, monk, pulis, Warnock, all different players coming in and approaches and then when theyre gone we need a rebuild. At some point we need to just work with what we've got and continue to improve the squad. I do agree we need to be using the players we have brought in though.
We have needed pace since Southgate was here. Other than Traore and Jones, I really struggle to think of pacy players. Adomah maybe? Tav kind of?
allied_assault
Well-known member
Payero didn't look bad to me at Cardiff last season.
Played well.
Jedi boro
Well-known member
I think he could easily get the call as he is now a first team member at Argentina’s biggest club and he is already in the Argentine spotlight as he was with the Olympics squad.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all.
jonny_greenings_sock
Well-known member
Have to inject a bit of realism here because increasingly seeing that a lot of posters are putting a lot of faith in Massimo Luongo.
Yes he has got a Ballon D’Or (nomination) but **** me, he sat on the bench for Sheff Wed in League One all last season, then got released.
Yes he has got a Ballon D’Or (nomination) but **** me, he sat on the bench for Sheff Wed in League One all last season, then got released.
Mayor Goldie Wilson
Well-known member
People are desperate for something different though, so I can see why people are hopeful he will provide it
Redwurzel
Well-known member
Some games just passed Payero by - anyone see him at Reading?
You could see potential, but sometimes he was a fish out of water in the English Championship, posters keep mentioning the Cardiff away game, but forget the others and his rash tackle at QPR that knocked him out for 3 months?
It sounds like he has improved this season, when he first went to Boca he was not starting games, Boca are Norwich equivalent for me, but with ten times more fans. They are not English Premier League standard.
I agree with posters that the midfield situation after it was decided to sell Tav and loan Payeros appears to be not thought for or fell through. Massimo Luongo looked decent, but it was only 45 minutes. And why did it take 2 months to sign him?
Ref Dijksteel in midfield I mentioned this last season - he is generally strong for a midfielder, no slouch, good feet control, fairly athletic. His weakness has been more against centre forwards running at him and possibly aerial defending. I am not sure if it would work but it could be worth a trial.
You could see potential, but sometimes he was a fish out of water in the English Championship, posters keep mentioning the Cardiff away game, but forget the others and his rash tackle at QPR that knocked him out for 3 months?
It sounds like he has improved this season, when he first went to Boca he was not starting games, Boca are Norwich equivalent for me, but with ten times more fans. They are not English Premier League standard.
I agree with posters that the midfield situation after it was decided to sell Tav and loan Payeros appears to be not thought for or fell through. Massimo Luongo looked decent, but it was only 45 minutes. And why did it take 2 months to sign him?
Ref Dijksteel in midfield I mentioned this last season - he is generally strong for a midfielder, no slouch, good feet control, fairly athletic. His weakness has been more against centre forwards running at him and possibly aerial defending. I am not sure if it would work but it could be worth a trial.
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Redwurzel
Well-known member
He was injured in 2021 and played regularly in 2022 as S/Wed results improved. S/Wed offered him a new contract this summer which he refused. So he decided to leave when his contract expired and was not released by the Club.
Colin Warnek
Well-known member
He at least had pace, youth and took a shot. You can't tell me Mowatt is better than Payero on what we've seen so far.
Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants
Well-known member
This
jonny_greenings_sock
Well-known member
I know Payero only played for us for about 20 seconds but I watched all his games, and thought he showed serious potential.
So much more footballing nous than the midfield we’ve got at the minute, a wicked shot, and a different approach to the game which will do well at a higher level. The definition of a development player and you can see why Inter Milan were interested, I think he’ll end up in Serie A actually.
Total damp squib of a career here because Warnock didn’t want him and Wilder didn’t want him, and neither of them really wanted to play him. Unlucky injury at exactly the wrong time. But you could tell straightaway that he was the kind of player who could go to a higher level. I wouldn’t say that about any midfielder we have at the minute. Certainly watching McGree’s first two matches for us and Payero’s, I know if I was a scout who I’d pick.
Point is, we should have replaced him or ideally played him.
So much more footballing nous than the midfield we’ve got at the minute, a wicked shot, and a different approach to the game which will do well at a higher level. The definition of a development player and you can see why Inter Milan were interested, I think he’ll end up in Serie A actually.
Total damp squib of a career here because Warnock didn’t want him and Wilder didn’t want him, and neither of them really wanted to play him. Unlucky injury at exactly the wrong time. But you could tell straightaway that he was the kind of player who could go to a higher level. I wouldn’t say that about any midfielder we have at the minute. Certainly watching McGree’s first two matches for us and Payero’s, I know if I was a scout who I’d pick.
Point is, we should have replaced him or ideally played him.
Muttley
Well-known member
I suspect that the issue with Payero was simply homesickness. Some players can adapt to playing a long way from home others can't. Shame he looks as though he could go on to better things.
Mowatt however...
I can see him as an alternative to Howson, not as good as Johnny but a replacement. Playing him WITH Howson doesn't work. McGree or Luongo or one of the yoofs even but not as a part of a midfield three.
Mowatt however...
I can see him as an alternative to Howson, not as good as Johnny but a replacement. Playing him WITH Howson doesn't work. McGree or Luongo or one of the yoofs even but not as a part of a midfield three.
jonny_greenings_sock
Well-known member
Agree - but you have to nurture them if you’re going to play that game of signing potential.
His injury was incredibly untimely, but how many chances are we going to get to sign the best player in Argentina’s U20 team?
Like @Nano said earlier, if you’re going to Moneyball it you have to create an environment where the player can stand out individually, know they can improve, highlight what they do and then move on with good wishes on all sides.
It’s a joke he didn’t play more minutes.
And edit: no-one’s homesick if they’re playing Tuesday-Saturday-Tuesday.
His injury was incredibly untimely, but how many chances are we going to get to sign the best player in Argentina’s U20 team?
Like @Nano said earlier, if you’re going to Moneyball it you have to create an environment where the player can stand out individually, know they can improve, highlight what they do and then move on with good wishes on all sides.
It’s a joke he didn’t play more minutes.
And edit: no-one’s homesick if they’re playing Tuesday-Saturday-Tuesday.
Expat Smoggie
Well-known member
I don’t see plodders in the side I just see a team lacking leadership and wayward tactics. First half tactics seem to be long ball while the second seems to be short ball. There doesn’t seem to be any of the overlapping fullbacks that Wilder used so well at Sheff U— why’s that?
Last night we didn’t show up again until the game was over and even then it was token gesture. The team is lacking chemistry and leadership— that’s a lot in terms of winning games but that’s what I see is basically missing.
I’d drop Howson and bring McGree in to centre midfield. That might start to promote some sort of urgency with the midfield and perhaps develop a new midfield pairing of Mowatt, McGree and perhaps this new lad Luongo.
Last night we didn’t show up again until the game was over and even then it was token gesture. The team is lacking chemistry and leadership— that’s a lot in terms of winning games but that’s what I see is basically missing.
I’d drop Howson and bring McGree in to centre midfield. That might start to promote some sort of urgency with the midfield and perhaps develop a new midfield pairing of Mowatt, McGree and perhaps this new lad Luongo.