What do you mean come good? He's been a very good player for 5 years including player of the year once.
McNair - Right Back
- Thread starter Il Preside
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What do you mean come good? He's been a very good player for 5 years including player of the year once.
BoroMart
Well-known member
Potentially our best RB adds pace to our defence too
He was signed as a midfielder. He was player of the year when we were nearly relegated from the championship which is hardly a ringing endorsement. Then he was moved into defence and he's never been a good defender so yes, we're still waiting for a £5m player to emerge.
Come good? - He's played 200 times... Consistently every season for the past 5 years...
Player of the season. Multiple man of the match awards...
Imagine being able to find a player for £5 million who's going to play consistently for 5 seasons, and can do a job in multiple different positions....
2nd season with us he played in every single game with the exception of a red card suspension.
3rd season with us he played almost every single minute. He played most of his 4th season too.... and featured in over 50% of games under Carrick last season.
Absolute bargain for £5 million.
Ok, so only certain player of the year awards count. Couldn't disagree more on him as a defender either - he played very well last season in defence (and under Wilder) - we must have been doing really well to carry such a poor player.
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
This is why McNair should have a place in the squad. He's expensive and not worthy of a regular first team place but his versatility means he's a decent temporary stand in.
Chuba was player of the year this season and he scored 29. McNair was player of the year when we were rubbish and he scored 6. We were rubbish all round though so it's a much lower bar to beat. He wouldn't have been player of the year that season if we weren't so dire and he also contributed to the direness.
Yes, he played a lot. We've covered that. Players of his calibre playing a lot is one of the reasons we are still a championship team. He played mostly towards the end of the season when Fry was out injured. We played poorly in a lot of those games compared to when Fry played. In the seasons he has played CB we have had poor defensive records as well so hardly something to shout about.
Assombalonga played a lot of games as well but he was also poor value, and also wasn't good enough to get us promoted. Players playing a lot of games for the same club isn't necessarily a good thing. If you are a team like Boro then players play for you for a long time because they aren't good enough to be snapped up by a PL team. If you pay big money for them it's really difficult to get anyone to take them from you because nobody else is daft enough to offer players like McNair £20k+ per week. There is not a chance he has been a bargain at £5m. He's been a financial millstone. Including wages that is £10m. That's exceptionally poor value. We've had worse but there is far better value available.
He started 7 of our opening 10 games, playing 90 minutes in 5 of them. He's played on and off consistently throughout the season.
Not sure where you're getting these "facts" from, but under Carrick we've only lost 1 more game with McNair than we have with Fry - which includes Sunderland when Fry was sent off in the first half.
They've both played a similar number of minutes, but McNair played against Burnley, Coventry, Millwall and Swansea in that time period. Fry didn't.
I'm not suggesting McNair is better than Fry, I'm just pointing out the weird dislike some fans have for our players can lead to their personal opinions overruling the actual facts. I remember having similar conversations when we were selling Tav.
We've been a championship team for 12 seasons out of the last 13 (I think?) - with the exception of possibly Akpom, it's very rare any player over the age of 28 is going to be snapped up by a PL team.
If you don't pay big money for them, they leave to someone who will, which is the same for every player at every club.
When Paddy signed his new deal in 2020 - he'd played every single minute of every single game that season, and our only cover for most of that was an 18 year old Nathan Wood.
I don't want to pay big money for these type of players, but we have to.... or else they leave. That's why Howson's on more than Paddy. Matt Crooks is up there too. Unfortunately so is Matt Clarke... Tommy Smith earns double Dijksteel. Shall we get rid of them all and have a team of kids willing to play for less?
Quicksilvera
Well-known member
A good, solid and versatile player.
Our squad would be a lot worse off should he leave.
Like somebody else said though I’d like to see Dijksteel in the side more.
In terms of Coulson it could be a shrewd move to bring him back in, we are a team that is going to be on the front foot in most games and with his pace he could be an asset. I still have a few doubts though.
Our squad would be a lot worse off should he leave.
Like somebody else said though I’d like to see Dijksteel in the side more.
In terms of Coulson it could be a shrewd move to bring him back in, we are a team that is going to be on the front foot in most games and with his pace he could be an asset. I still have a few doubts though.
He started the season on the bench. You'll remember Wilder spent all last summer trying to sign a left sided centre back to replace him. He succeeded with Clarke which meant McNair was benched until Clarke got injured. He didn't start a match under Carrick until January when Lenihan was out and then he was out again until Fry got sent off against Sunderland. Fry missed most of the season from then on with injury. We have then signed another CB this summer which indicates McNair is falling further down the pecking order, i.e. not first choice.
McNair is only just 28. If he was a top player he would have left before he got to 28. Obviously as he gets older he's going to be less desirable for a PL team (unless it's as a squad filler for a yo-yo team).
"When Paddy signed his new deal in 2020 - he'd played every single minute of every single game that season, and our only cover for most of that was an 18 year old Nathan Wood."
Exactly. We had nobody else. He was played there out of necessity and because Warnock wanted a good passer to hoof balls to centre forwards, not because he was a good defender. You don't need to fill your squad with kids but your big earners should be your first choice players, not your back-ups. It makes no sense to fill the first team with cheap players and have an expensive bench. Smith was a free transfer so his salary will be inflated by that fact. Howson has been captain, top performer and an ever-present and we haven't replaced him. He's also on a short-term deal so it makes sense that he is paid more. We've already replaced McNair multiple times so it's time we moved him on.
I'm not suggesting he's a "top player". I'm suggesting he's a player of top championship standard, which is exactly what we as a club are.
Fans are living in dreamland if they think we can find better than McNair for £5 million without taking a gamble on another kid.
Dear me. He didn't play every single minute of every game and win player of the season because we "had nobody else".
That doesn't fit your narrative. You've just said we were playing McNair in the 2020 season because we "had nobody else". Isn't that the exact same reason we're playing Howson now?
If we offer Paddy a short-term deal for an extra year, do his wages suddenly make more sense? - We signed Howson for £6 million and he's always been on higher wages than McNair.
indeedido
Well-known member
You simply do not know what the players earn. Why do you make out that you do. There is nothing definitive in public.
Diego
Well-known member
Why you pretending you know everyone’s wages?
BoroMart
Well-known member
McNair is a decent squad player, he can do well enough to cover for multiple positions, but is a bit short in all those positions to make himself a first choice starter that is of the right quality level. His best position is probably right CB in a back 3, but we don't play that way anymore. I'm not against him staying, he covers multiple roles and has experience, but the only role I would want him to play a significant number of games is CB, and even then I'd prefer Fry and Lenihan and maybe RVDB but I'll judge that when I've seen more of him.
The entire argument against Paddy is he earns too much. I'm reading estimates on players wages in the exact same place everyone else is.
MidlandsBoroFan
Well-known member
Not as good a CB as Fry or Lenihan.
Not as good a RB as Smith or Dijksteel.
Not as good a CM as Howson or Hackney.
But can cover all those positions, to an acceptable level, for a club our size with our budget. Never complains or hides in games. I’m not gutted when his name is on the team sheet, I’d just prefer that everyone is fit and he’s on the bench.
Not our best player by a distance, but for me he’s definitely worth keeping unless we get a really good offer.
Edit: forgot to add, also takes set pieces and is one of our best penalty takers.
Not as good a RB as Smith or Dijksteel.
Not as good a CM as Howson or Hackney.
But can cover all those positions, to an acceptable level, for a club our size with our budget. Never complains or hides in games. I’m not gutted when his name is on the team sheet, I’d just prefer that everyone is fit and he’s on the bench.
Not our best player by a distance, but for me he’s definitely worth keeping unless we get a really good offer.
Edit: forgot to add, also takes set pieces and is one of our best penalty takers.
Thornaby90
Well-known member
When he played RB last time he was OK going forward with a decent delivery but defensively he was shocking, always caught on the ball, out of position, clumsy mistakes etc.
No thanks
No thanks