Matt Hancock and the pantomime of PPE

Some top whataboutery here - never mind what other countries have or haven’t done, it was up to our government to protect its population - they’ve failed absolutely miserably, and we’re on course to be worst hit in Europe and second only to the USA for deaths


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When people say that the government had months to prepare.... in hindsight they did, but in practice I think most governments missed that window to a certain extent.

In some ways few governments around the world took Coronavirus totally seriously enough while it was bubbling away in China in December and January.

(I'm not saying this to defend the UK government. Just that it seems to have been a bit of a common theme).

However, with most of us on here being from the UK, it's the UK government we'll hold to account.
 
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Laughing said:
AB they had less time to prepare, and to be honest, should we be comparing ourselves with the worst performing nations? I would liek to think we want to be world leaders, not also rans.
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I’m not comparing us to them. Just pointing out if it was just a case of getting the PPE the other countries would of just got it too.
 
John67 said:
What I am becoming increasingly angry about is the media and political line that, during a crisis the government should not be held to account. I would have thought that is the exact time it should be given.
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we need the govt to be doing work protecting us the public not defending themselves from the critics.

when this is all over then there should be an inquiry and if blame needs to be allocated then so be it but now isnt the time imo
 
ABHBORO said:
I’m not comparing us to them. Just pointing out if it was just a case of getting the PPE the other countries would of just got it too.
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The ones who were not going to accept death rates 50 times less than ours did. Taiwan got 62 NEW factories making masks in early February. They make a mask for everyone in the population every 2 days.
 
ABH, you are using other countries as a comparison though, otherwise why would you mention their responses? As examples of the inaction of OUR government, why did they not join the EU procurement scheme for ventilators? Do you actually believe it was due to someone missing an email? Also, when ventilator makers in the U.K. were contacting the government to ask if they needed to up production, do you really think it was a missed email again? At the same time they were having meetings with multi billion Mr Dyson about designing ventilators. Seems a coincidence to some but not to me. On PPE, it is well documented that the NHS were promised, over and over, that PPE was on its way. It either didn’t arrive or it did? Do you believe the frontline staff, some of whom have died since raising the issue or the government? Don’t get me started on testing.
 
ABHBORO said:
I’m not comparing us to them. Just pointing out if it was just a case of getting the PPE the other countries would of just got it too.
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AB it is kinda pointless debating the point you make, when you change the context immeadiately. We did have an oppotunity and we missed it. Now doctors and nurses are dying. The government failed to adequately protect them, yet hail our health heroes at every turn. Why hail them and fail to protect them? Could it be there is political gain in praising them as opposed to... oh I don't know, protecting them and paying them adequately. This government stinks and on a business as usual scenario, that's one thing, when people are dying, it's a different thing altogether.

To be clear Johnson and his government are not fit for purpose. Those of us with a social conscience knew this before this pandemic.
 
John67 said:
ABH, you are using other countries as a comparison though, otherwise why would you mention their responses? As examples of the inaction of OUR government, why did they not join the EU procurement scheme for ventilators? Do you actually believe it was due to someone missing an email? Also, when ventilator makers in the U.K. were contacting the government to ask if they needed to up production, do you really think it was a missed email again? At the same time they were having meetings with multi billion Mr Dyson about designing ventilators. Seems a coincidence to some but not to me. On PPE, it is well documented that the NHS were promised, over and over, that PPE was on its way. It either didn’t arrive or it did? Do you believe the frontline staff, some of whom have died since raising the issue or the government? Don’t get me started on testing.
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How many ventilators would we of already got out of the EU scheme?
And your right we should of had nothing to do with Dyson and some of the best engineers in the world that work for him
 
We were offered 20,000 to start with rising to 30,000 if I recall correctly
Turned them down
 
ABHBORO said:
How many ventilators would we of already got out of the EU scheme?
And your right we should of had nothing to do with Dyson and some of the best engineers in the world that work for him
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Time is absolutely critical - of course we should have been speaking with Dyson... AND many, many other companies, straight away from day one. It should have been dealt with urgently and without hesitation and open to ANYONE who could help and change their factories to help production of ventilators and PPE etc. Instead, they did that typically Tory thing and tried lining the pockets of their donors first, treating all others as secondary. Absolutely shameful and while sadly there is still a long time to go until the election, I suspect the Tories will have a very, very difficult few years.
 
Were now seeing the results of years of the Tories decimating british manufacturing, in a not too distant future we will all see the results of the Tories shutting down steel making in the UK. What is no doubt is the likes of ABH and others will still continue to find some reason to blame anyone other than the Tories and the Tory ideology.
 
TheLodger said:
Were now seeing the results of years of the Tories decimating british manufacturing, in a not too distant future we will all see the results of the Tories shutting down steel making in the UK. What is no doubt is the likes of ABH and others will still continue to find some reason to blame anyone other than the Tories and the Tory ideology.
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:cry:
I just don’t blame the government because it’s a Tory government.
 
ABHBORO said:
:cry:
I just don’t blame the government because it’s a Tory government.
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If the Tories were competent and fair across the board I would acknowledge that. They aren't, they're completely incompetent and the continued running down of the NHS over the last decade, the austerity project and abysmal scandals of Windrush and Grenfell etc are valid reasons to call out the Government. Those particular scandals will pale in comparison to their 'handling' of this when the dust settles. So to respond to your point I don't blame the Government just because they're Tory, I blame them for being the most inept, self-serving Government in my lifetime characterised by their complete lack of compassion and ethics with policies that have damaged millions and millions of people.
 
From the BBC website just now - my highlighting ....

Growing criticism of UK government on PPE
The UK's health secretary, Matt Hancock, has said he is not aware of a link between a lack of personal protective equipment (PPE) and any of the 19 deaths of NHS staff that he has confirmed.
But there is growing criticism of the government's plans to equip NHS and social care workers with the right equipment.
Supplies of personal protective equipment (PPE) in London and Yorkshire are at "dangerously low levels", according to the British Medical Association, which says doctors' lives are being put at risk.
Sir Keir Starmer, leader of the opposition Labour party, said suggestions some NHS staff are wasting PPE was "frankly insulting," while Liberal Democrat acting leader Ed Davey said he was "frustrated and disappointed more isn't being done".
Mr Hancock told the BBC the government was looking into how NHS staff who had died with the virus were infected.
However, he said it was important to note that some may have caught it outside of work. He has also said a "Herculean effort" is underway to distribute PPE.

Quite frankly, words fail me
 
Malaguena, I am of the opinion, right now, that any one who defends this government are either politically motivated to defend their ballot at the last election, or stupid. I can't see any other reason, I really cannot.
 
Nobby_Barnes said:
Spot on BR14, there are only a limited number of mask manufacturers and they mainly supply the industrial market. You can't just decide to buy millions of masks at the drop of a hat and expect them just to be sitting in a warehouse somewhere when global demand is unprecedented.

It's just naive to think that...
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Other countries did, the Italian government delivered two surgical mask to every household, we had 4 months warning of this hitting us and did nothing ! Didn't have first cobra meeting until March the 9th after 3 people had died in the UK !
 
It is a bit of a shame if you have a health secretary who is out of his depth when a pandemic hits. However he cannot be blamed just by himself.

Here are two more to be named and shamed as well:

Andrew Lansley 2010-2012
Jeremy Hunt 2012-2018
 
Laughing said:
BR14 this kind of response bugs me a bit. The government has had months to prepare. They could have passed legislation and comandeered a factory, they could have asked british manufacturing to switch to making masks with a promise of a large contract for PPE.

It is well documented that several companies. when asked at the end of Feb what PPE they could manufacture, were ignored as the Government wanted to get it from Bhangladesh, one can only assume because it is cheaper.

It is a global problem, you're right, we could have avoided the problem in the first place, and this government are to blame for that, not a world shortage of PPE or the materials, this government.

Please stop excusing the poor performance and decision making of Johnson and his cabinet, whatever your political persuasion.
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Well said mate, hit the nail right on the head, a lot of people have a lot to answer for not least that r sole Cummins !
 
John67 said:
ABH, you are using other countries as a comparison though, otherwise why would you mention their responses? As examples of the inaction of OUR government, why did they not join the EU procurement scheme for ventilators? Do you actually believe it was due to someone missing an email? Also, when ventilator makers in the U.K. were contacting the government to ask if they needed to up production, do you really think it was a missed email again? At the same time they were having meetings with multi billion Mr Dyson about designing ventilators. Seems a coincidence to some but not to me. On PPE, it is well documented that the NHS were promised, over and over, that PPE was on its way. It either didn’t arrive or it did? Do you believe the frontline staff, some of whom have died since raising the issue or the government? Don’t get me started on testing.
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It was proven that government representatives were at the procurement meetings on 3 occasions and we said no thanks ! It's tantamount to corporate manslaughter!
 
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