Looks like we couldn't afford Giles??

HolgateCorner said:
And Brentford will run their course like plenty of other ‘model’ clubs before them, I won’t bother doing the list.
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Most likely when they abandon their philosophy, just like when Stoke did.

Bottom line is you need a philosophy, flip flopping like we did is a way to burn through money.

Buying cheaper young players, but scouting them well is a workable philosophy, as is attacking possession with intent football.

There are lots of negative comments coming out the woodwork on this thread, with the allusion that we will fail, so the challenge is to tell me a workable strategy that is guaranteed to achieve more than this one….
 
indeedido said:
They’ve done very very well.
Brighton even better and on higher value players and higher stakes speculation by Bloom.
Virtually every club has been looking to do similar in recent times. Not everyone will succeed.

The keys as ever are the quality of the academy, the recruitment operation, the coaching calibre to bring players on and the skill in managing the transfer sales.
The one I have confidence in is Carrick and the coaching team. I’d just like them to have quality to work with. If they have quality, we can go up, stay up and be more Brighton.
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Cant disagree with that. I really hope Carrick is on board with whats going on. In my opinion he served his time last season and showed what he could do. I thought the club would really back him this season. They may well do that in the rest of the window but he must be as frustrated as the rest of us.
 
BoroMart said:
Other clubs will try but they’re doing it on the cheap, not investing in experienced talent identification staff, scouts, data analysts and a DoF.

you are right, it’s a crowded market, which is where having the best people identifying players for specific roles and a bigger department, is really important.

Another change in our philosophy is a first team that are attack based. Goalscorer sand creators are the most expensive players, by playing attacking football we end up with a lot of goal scorers that have a higher value. Which helps our buy low sell high model.
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trainingground.guru

Training Ground Guru | James Young: The role of data in Sunderland's brave new world

SUNDERLAND'S new Head of Data and Analysis, James Young, tells TGG about his first five months at the club and his ambitions for the future.
trainingground.guru trainingground.guru

Im not seeing any evidence that we are doing it bigger and better than even the chaps down the road.

Sincerely hope we don't waste the opportunity we have. We have a good core of players. A good manager. I hope our summer transfer policy amounts to more than a bunch of long shots. Last year we did great. This year...
 
we aint paying 5milion for a left back when we need a new cf are we. practically all our budget will be on the new cf. its why it wont be done until late in the window. thats when all the big moves happen
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
trainingground.guru

Training Ground Guru | James Young: The role of data in Sunderland's brave new world

SUNDERLAND'S new Head of Data and Analysis, James Young, tells TGG about his first five months at the club and his ambitions for the future.
trainingground.guru trainingground.guru

Im not seeing any evidence that we are doing it bigger and better than even the chaps down the road.

Sincerely hope we don't waste the opportunity we have. We have a good core of players. A good manager. I hope our summer transfer policy amounts to more than a bunch of long shots. Last year we did great. This year...
Click to expand...
No one said we were, but I’d say we are spending money wiser than many others in this league.
 
Interesting to see how our model turns out in comparison to Brentford/Brighton.

They have an immediate advantage over us due to their geographical location......and historically we have had to pay top dollar to attract top players to the NE.

It's going to take time, something that isn't particularly common in football
 
BoroMart said:
Most likely when they abandon their philosophy, just like when Stoke did.

Bottom line is you need a philosophy, flip flopping like we did is a way to burn through money.

Buying cheaper young players, but scouting them well is a workable philosophy, as is attacking possession with intent football.

There are lots of negative comments coming out the woodwork on this thread, with the allusion that we will fail, so the challenge is to tell me a workable strategy that is guaranteed to achieve more than this one….
Click to expand...
I agree I think the current strategy makes sense and has every chance of succeeding. One other advantage we have in my opinion to supplement good scouting is we have the infrastructure to develop our own top quality young players like Hackney, how much would he cost to bring in?
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
trainingground.guru

Training Ground Guru | James Young: The role of data in Sunderland's brave new world

SUNDERLAND'S new Head of Data and Analysis, James Young, tells TGG about his first five months at the club and his ambitions for the future.
trainingground.guru trainingground.guru

Im not seeing any evidence that we are doing it bigger and better than even the chaps down the road.

Sincerely hope we don't waste the opportunity we have. We have a good core of players. A good manager. I hope our summer transfer policy amounts to more than a bunch of long shots. Last year we did great. This year...
Click to expand...
So what is your strategy? Go all in and spend money that’ll put us at ffp risk?
 
BoroMart said:
No one said we were, but I’d say we are spending money wiser than many others in this league.
Click to expand...
I think it's too early to say at the moment. Looking at purchases, most recent first

January - first window with new model not having to fight with a manager
Dan Barlaser - bought for immediate use rather than waiting for contract to run down in the summer. Jury's out presently
Kamil Conteh - free for U21s. Loaned and sold. Bit of an odd one

Summer 2022 - obviously compromised by warfare with Wilder so I'll put Scott or Wilder in brackets if I think it was their preference.
Luongo (Wilder) - free, never played. Moved on.
Hoppe (Scott) - £2-3m? Looking like a failure presently.
Forss (Scott) - £3m. Looking good.
Matt Clarke (?) - £2.5m just bad luck
Smith, Roberts and Lenihan all perfectly fine free transfers.

Bilongo, Sivi for the U21s.

January 2022
McGree, Boyd Munce

Out of all of those, it looks like we could sell Forss and McGree at a profit so they potentially fit the model of buying a relatively cheap young player, improving him then selling at a profit. Prior to that our "model" was home grown academy players and Martin Carter souting in London.

Up to now, this "model" has had a bit of a ropey start but until Wilder and Warnock went it was suffering from not having a manager who bought into it.

This window is the first one where we have implemented it with Silvera, Rogers, Gilbert, RVDB, Nkrumah and Agyemang bought with it in mind. It's going to take a good 18 months to see which of these work and which don't. It's fairly low risk because even if we only sell one of them for £10m and the rest just disappear then, in financial terms, it will probably have worked.
 
HolgateCorner said:
I agree I think the current strategy makes sense and has every chance of succeeding. One other advantage we have in my opinion to supplement good scouting is we have the infrastructure to develop our own top quality young players like Hackney, how much would he cost to bring in?
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True, we couldn’t afford him if he was at another champ club
 
Bruce said:
Dan Barlaser - bought for immediate use rather than waiting for contract to run down in the summer. Jury's out presently
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Jury is out, but if sold him tomorrow it would probably be at profit because we got him for half price due to his contract situation. Makes it smart business

Bruce said:
Kamil Conteh - free for U21s. Loaned and sold. Bit of an odd one
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Got him for next to nothing and sold him at significant profit with sell on clauses and bonuses. It’s basically free money with a passive future income too. So that is a financial success. Yes some of us hoped he’d get a year in league two then see if he joined our first team. But this is gambling and you need a system and as soon as someone offers 3x his value to us, you sell.

Bruce said:
Luongo (Wilder) - free, never played. Moved on.
Hoppe (Scott) - £2-3m? Looking like a failure presently.
Forss (Scott) - £3m. Looking good.
Matt Clarke (?) - £2.5m just bad luck
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Yes it’s fair to say that Hoppe and Forss were Scott influences. Hoppe will probably leave at a loss. Think it was 1.8 with bonuses rising up to 3…those bonuses don’t look like happening. Some you win some you lose, you need to decide when to cut ties.

Forss, good signing and is probably worth a little over that 3m right now. If he posts stats like last season but plays more regularly his value will double.

The new signings Dieng is a good keeper at a decent price. Roberts has bags of potential and can impact how. Probably needs 15 goals and assists to double his value from what we paid, about £1.5m, and I think he has the ability to do that. Might take him a year to gain more experience mind.

Silvera looks a snip too from what I’ve seen he’ll score and create and that will increase his value ten fold.
 
h_m_boro said:
Interesting to see how our model turns out in comparison to Brentford/Brighton.

They have an immediate advantage over us due to their geographical location......and historically we have had to pay top dollar to attract top players to the NE.
Click to expand...
Footballers aren’t on holiday. I don’t think they care that much. If we give them an attacking side with a good footballing philosophy and show a path to the prem for them, then they’ll join.

We won’t have to pay top wages to sign up and coming players. It’s when we want to sign proven stars we need to get the cheque book out.
 
The current recruitment model goes beyond what we see in the first team.

Martin Carter scouted Dan Nkumah from Leyton Orient, and Terrell Agyemang who was London-based before signing for Man City.
Our London scouts are also responsible for Bryant Bilongo, Jeremy Sivi, Pharrell Willis and Kamil Conteh (although not sure what happened there?).

But it goes into the younger levels of the academy too. There's also George Gitau and Yacou Traore in the U21s
Judah Tawiah (also from Leyton Orient) and Rio Patterson-Powell in the U18s.

We also have George Grant and Amazing Kiasungua in the U18s who were scouted from a showcase football tournament in the midlands (
).
 
Ash88 said:
The current recruitment model goes beyond what we see in the first team.

Martin Carter scouted Dan Nkumah from Leyton Orient, and Terrell Agyemang who was London-based before signing for Man City.
Our London scouts are also responsible for Bryant Bilongo, Jeremy Sivi, Pharrell Willis and Kamil Conteh (although not sure what happened there?).

But it goes into the younger levels of the academy too. There's also George Gitau and Yacou Traore in the U21s
Judah Tawiah (also from Leyton Orient) and Rio Patterson-Powell in the U18s.

We also have George Grant and Amazing Kiasungua in the U18s who were scouted from a showcase football tournament in the midlands (
).
Click to expand...
Amazing Kiasungua? What's he like?
 
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