Liverpool are "exploring the range of options available"

[Ignore_Alien_Orders]

A load of fuss about nothing. If there was no VAR the goal would have been disallowed anyway as it was flagged offside.
It was a simple case of human error. Not the first and it won't be the last.

 

[futureboy]

We've got the technology and all the extra faff that goes with it and we're getting even worse decisions than we got before it was introduced.

If mistakes are going to happen anyway, then let the people reffing the game in real time make them.

Yes, VAR in its current form appears to be a complete shytshow, but that doesn't mean football is better off without technology. We shouldn't just blindly accept that "mistakes are going to happen anyway". There must be a way to stop teams being robbed - yes, even Liverpool.

What's your answer to the question I asked at the end of my post?

 

[B_G]

I don't get why so many people want football teams and fans to just "suck it up" when game-changing decisions are wrongly made by officials. Why should we be happy to put up with that? Why shouldn't we advocate for change?? It shouldn't be acceptable in this day and age, with all the technology we have, for incorrect (big) decisions to cost teams points.

If someone scored a clear handball against us in the last minute when we were leading 1-0, or there was a repeat of Jacob Butterfield's goal against Wednesday that wasn't given, and there was a pause around the stadium while we went to a VAR check... how many of you lot would be complaining and saying "no, don't check it, just carry on, terrible decisions are just part and parcel of the game"?

Review the system to prevent it happening again. People have given suggestions on this thread on how that could be done. Whenever you've got human involvement you will get some human error.

You can't start replaying games every time a mistake is made.

 

[Jedi boro]

It’s not beyond the wit of man is it. Happens in every other sport including cricket, tennis, rugby, basketball, NFL etc etc.

I suspect the only reason football refs aren’t mic’ed up is because refs and players do an awful lot of swearing. Probably more avoiding the cultural change that everyone could hear what happens on the pitch, and refs, players and managers would have to be aware of that, as much as avoiding that extra step of accountability.

Mic’ing them up would kill two birds with one stone then.

Did you ever see the world in action episode where did mic up a ref in an Arsenal game snd the abuse he got from
Senior players was incredible inc Tony Adams who was prob eng capt at the time.

Here it is

David Elleray wears a mic Millwall v Arsenal

youtu.be

 

[BoroMart]

A load of fuss about nothing. If there was no VAR the goal would have been disallowed anyway as it was flagged offside.
It was a simple case of human error. Not the first and it won't be the last.

Yes everyone is focussing on "VAR" being the issue here, it isn't it's people. Any service is made of people, process and technology. The tech did it's job the process and people less so. Training and refinement of the process, will improve the maturity of the VAR service but the human element will always ensure there are mistakes. It cannot be 100% correct at all times, and that shouldn't be the aim of it, it should aim to be more accurate than when VAR wasn't used, and it certainly seems to be.

 

[ForssAwakens]

Yes everyone is focussing on "VAR" being the issue here, it isn't it's people. Any service is made of people, process and technology. The tech did it's job the process and people less so. Training and refinement of the process, will improve the maturity of the VAR service but the human element will always ensure there are mistakes. It cannot be 100% correct at all times, and that shouldn't be the aim of it, it should aim to be more accurate than when VAR wasn't used, and it certainly seems to be.

We should be in the mind frame of black box thinking. As mistakes are made investigate and learn and think about how to stop that happening in the future. That doesn’t seem to be happening right now

 

[BoroMart]

We should be in the mind frame of black box thinking. As mistakes are made investigate and learn and think about how to stop that happening in the future. That doesn’t seem to be happening right now

I'm sure it is, but the press are all over every mistake, they never balance out with, how VAR resolved an issue and got the right result.

 

[Muttley]

it should aim to be more accurate than when VAR wasn't used, and it certainly seems to be.

Because no one ever goes to a football match for the excitement, the drama or the entertainment, they attend to worship at the altar of strict legal enforcement of the FA Laws and periods of quiet contemplation whilst video reviews are examined in ever great forensic detail just add an extra zen-like dimension to "being there".

FFS

 

[FishofContemplation]

It concerns me that so many folk who think they know football are unable to differentiate between a referee or linesman making a contentious on-field decision and what went on in the VAR box on Saturday.

What people are also largely missing is that what went on in the VAR box on Saturday only happened at all because of a linesman making a wrong decision in the first place.

 

[BoroMart]

they attend to worship at the altar of strict legal enforcement of the FA Laws

Have you ever come away from a game ***ed that the ref made a mistake? It can ruin the game for fans, moreso than VAR overturning a goal.

Of course application of the rules are important and always have been and they were applied worse in the past than today,

 

[Otto42]

Did you ever see the world in action episode where did mic up a ref in an Arsenal game snd the abuse he got from
Senior players was incredible inc Tony Adams who was prob eng capt at the time.

Here it is

David Elleray wears a mic Millwall v Arsenal

youtu.be

Remember seeing clips of that in the past, loved our mate Elleray telling Adams to 'Go Away', imagine him saying something similar to Dyche at Old Trafford in 1997

 

[Cat’s Lives]

Managers and club leadership have moaned at and blamed referees for years for their own shortcomings. It’s now a systemic problem that has actually seen us change the sport with some rule changes but also the introduction of VAR.

Personally, I think it’s been a disaster and taken away from the game whilst still leaving errors and the constant moaning from at least 60% of managers every weekend.

Scrap it and go back to the referee having the final say. Complaining about the ref should stay in the stands, professional managers and players have 90 minutes to win the game, concentrate on what they can directly influence.

 

[Scrote]

it should aim to be more accurate than when VAR wasn't used, and it certainly seems to be.

We've had this discussion before. All the studies (and Spitz et al seems to be the one that gets quoted most) show that there is a minor (6%) increase in correct decisions when VAR is required to intervene.

That's not 6% across all decisions. It's not even 6% across all decision where VAR makes a check. It's 6% when VAR intervenes and makes fans wait an interminable age to find out if someone had a toenail that they should have cut.

There is no significant improvement in results when you take into account that refs have leeway when making decisions on whether to penalise a foul or whether to award a penalty.

What's your answer to the question I asked at the end of my post?

Bin VAR until the technology is proven to work.

Amend the rules of the game to incorporate VAR where necessary. We already have a two-tier system with VAR/no-VAR.

Use VAR in the same way Cricket, Rugby, NFL etc. do it. Explain what decision is being looked at and show the images as they're being checked. Talk through what is being seen and announce the decision at the end of it.

There'll still be errors when a ref decides not to review but they will be fewer and less important.

 

[BoroMart]

Managers and club leadership have moaned at and blamed referees for years for their own shortcomings. It’s now a systemic problem that has actually seen us change the sport with some rule changes but also the introduction of VAR.

Personally, I think it’s been a disaster and taken away from the game whilst still leaving errors and the constant moaning from at least 60% of managers every weekend.

Scrap it and go back to the referee having the final say. Complaining about the ref should stay in the stands, professional managers and players have 90 minutes to win the game, concentrate on what they can directly influence.

Nah, refine it, bring in a bit of AI to speed up the tech. Maybe look at a Tennis style manager appeal system and offside and pen decisions as mandatory.

If they got rid of VAR, managers and fans would just complain at the increase in bad decisions.

 

[Otto42]

Only game I've ever been at when VAR has been involved was our Cup game at Man Utd a few years ago. Didn't have a clue there was any controversy over our goal until texted by mates watching on TV. VAR as was always argued takes the elite even further from the grass roots and takes no account of spectators actually in the ground. Totally there for the social media and arm chair pundits, am glad we are out of it to be honest - don't mind seeing it annoy the big boys, but wouldn't be good for my already high blood pressure if a team I cared about were subject to it!

 

[Jedi boro]

Only game I've ever been at when VAR has been involved was our Cup game at Man Utd a few years ago. Didn't have a clue there was any controversy over our goal until texted by mates watching on TV. VAR as was always argued takes the elite even further from the grass roots and takes no account of spectators actually in the ground. Totally there for the social media and arm chair pundits, am glad we are out of it to be honest - don't mind seeing it annoy the big boys, but wouldn't be good for my already high blood pressure if a team I cared about were subject to it!

Didn’t you to spurs away as it was used in that game as but not for us apparently.

 

[Otto42]

Didn’t you to spurs away as it was used in that game as but not for us apparently.

No I didn't go to that one. Actually remember in the first game, wouldn't Fletcher's goal have been offside with VAR, so no need for the away replay in Liverpool's retrospective sporting integrity world.

 

[Jedi boro]

No I didn't go to that one. Actually remember in the first game, wouldn't Fletcher's goal have been offside with VAR, so no need for the away replay in Liverpool's retrospective sporting integrity world.

I remember we had a player completely cleaned out in that game nothing nothing at all happened.

 

[Muttley]

Have you ever come away from a game ***ed that the ref made a mistake?

Of course. We will then talk about it in the pub, at home or on here for interminable hours. It's what we do. I support technology like goal-line that helps with accurate decision making whilst not interrupting the game. VAR offers marginal gains in accuracy for an unacceptable trade off in entertainment.

I have never come away from a game thinking it would be better if there were periods of nothing happening whilst video reviews were taking place.

 

[Pak_Doo_Ik]

I am right in thinking can VAR is not the technology, VAR is the Video Assistant Referee (i.e a person) as I am tired of hearing VAR doesn’t get things wrong. To be correct the technology doesn’t get things wrong the VIdeo Assistant Referee (VAR) gets things wrong.

This is a ridiculous situation the game has found itself in and the big question for me is not regarding the right or wrong of the decision, it’s what was Darren England (the VAR) doing if he wasn’t watching the game?

Allegedly it took 7 seconds for them to realise an error had been made, as Jamie Carragher pointed out last night 7 seconds is a long time in footbal (according to some it could lead to 7 goals being scored as it only takes a second to score a goal), so he wasn’t paying attention when the goal was disallowed as he thought the goal was given (so what was doing) and secondly it took him 7 seconds to realise his error (again what was he doing). To put that in to perspective it’s like an on-referee missing nearly half a minute of a football game through not concentrating.

That’s why I think the bigger issue is, not whether Liverpool have been hard done to, it’s what are match officials doing if they’re not doing the job they are being paid to do???