BoroMart
Well-known member
people subject to racism tend to not undermine the importance of fighting racism. As you say you are white, so don't face racism
Les Ferdinand on why QPR players didn’t take a knee on Friday
- Thread starter Jedi boro
- Start date
smogontherhine
Active member
The self-righteousness is astounding.
EI_Owen
Well-known member
it should of course be a personal choice, as too should be taking the knee.
NoloBoro
Well-known member
And how do you know this? I’ve faced racism at work before. Is it not a form of racism to assert that I think in a certain way because of my race??
Anton_Berg
Well-known member
Actually nothing like the Poppy Appeal. Except maybe, for those who have one on their car all year long.
BoroMart
Well-known member
No that clearly isn't what I'm saying but feel fine to project that if that makes you feel righteous. I'm saying those who are not subject to persistent racism don't really see racism as an issue. In this country white people happen to be the people who are not subject to persistent racism. That is because of the demographics and social issues this country has historically had.
NoloBoro
Well-known member
I wouldn’t say I was self righteous, you are getting personal now but I’m big enough to forgive you
However, to return to your new points, which is it? The original assertion that I don’t face racism or your new opinion that I don’t ‘persistently’ face racism?
TeaCider
Well-known member
Wearing a poppy is nominally voluntary for people appearing on television, as is taking the knee, but the media will hound anyone who doesn't do it.
I have nothing but positivity about the Poppy Appeal, my post wasn't meant to be taken as criticism of the charity itself, but I think there is an immense social pressure to conform regardless of personal opinion.
Anton_Berg
Well-known member
'Poppy Fascism' is not only in bad taste, but alludes to something that doesn't happen in everyday life. As for media /celebs, who has ever been persecuted over this?
TeaCider
Well-known member
Some examples:
Jon Snow
Charlene White
James McClean
Nemanja Matic
All have perfectly valid reasons for not wearing one, the first two did so to avoid favouring one charity rather than an issue with the appeal itself.
Then there's the multitude of people criticised for the type of poppy they wear, or where it's placed.
But the crux of my post was not about poppies, it's that it's disingenuous to describe it as a purely voluntary act to take the knee when you risk castigation if you don't do it.
As happened in the F1, and with QPR recently.
Middlesbrough were criticised for not doing it near the tail end of last season in a single match, despite participating in it multiple times before and since.
But I'm happy and supportive of the club continuing to do it as long as the players see fit, and joined in with the applause on Saturday (though I was unsure whether it would be considered disrespectful).
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Colin Warnek
Well-known member
It was never anything more than that. Spot on from Les.
BoroMart
Well-known member
Lots of people can claim a one of element of racism in their life, that isn't the same as have it on a repeated basis to that point that it's the norm in your life. You know this, I know this, I'm not sure what your point isI wouldn’t say I was self righteous, you are getting personal now but I’m big enough to forgive you
However, to return to your new points, which is it? The original assertion that I don’t face racism or your new opinion that I don’t ‘persistently’ face racism?
BoroMart
Well-known member
...and that's fine, if someone has good reason to not do it, they're adults they can explain themselves if they so wish.
NoloBoro
Well-known member
My point was that there are bigger issues than this. You have gone on tangent of some sorts on the basis of your understanding as to how I see the world. Whereas I would not presume to tell you what you should think or why you hold the beliefs you do as that is none of my business.
BoroMart
Well-known member
why undermine it, racism exists right? Are you saying until every issue you deem to be more important gets resolved then people should pipe down about racism? Who gets to create this priority? What resources are we using in fighting racism that are being diverted from other issues? Or is this just a ridiculous concept that there are more important things than fighting racism? The answer is pretty obvious
EI_Owen
Well-known member
Most celebrities and TV personalities are worried about being seen on TV in November without a poppy. They know the furore that this will cause. I’ve done interviews with certain celebs in September and if the programme is going out in November production always make sure that poppies are worn (hard to find sometime).
One high profile BBC presenter I worked with finished all his pieces to camera and was on his way home when the director realised that the transmission date was in November. He rang the presenter who decided that he’d rather cycle back to the studio and re-shoot the entire programme wearing a poppy, than get it in the neck on Twitter for not wearing one.
NoloBoro
Well-known member
Cost in terms of focus rather than financial terms. There are issues that affect people on a constant basis. Yes racism exists nobody can deny it. Yes it’s abhorrent nobody’s can deny that. Is it as prevalent now as it always was?
Divide and conquer. Tell people they are different, make them suspicious of each other, pit them against one another. Then act with impunity. Divisions caused by race pale when compared against the divisions in opportunity afforded to different socio economic groups.
smogontherhine
Active member
Spot on. People are focused on trying to cure a symptom not the cause.
Unfortunately once every 4 years, suspiciously when there is a US election coming up, racism takes centre-stage only to be conveniently forgotten again afterwards.
BoroMart
Well-known member
"Cost in terms of focus rather than financial terms."
Again, you are saying we can't address racism until what you deem to be more important is addressed it is utter nonsense.
"Is it as prevalent now as it always was?"
Or put it another way has it had a massive resurge in the last 5 years, it categorically and provably has.
"Divide and conquer. Tell people they are different, make them suspicious of each other, pit them against one another. Then act with impunity. Divisions caused by race pale when compared against the divisions in opportunity afforded to different socio economic groups."
I absolutely agree with this, which is why we need to crush racism, and get poorer people to work together not against each other. 10 years ago it was pitting hard working poor people against perceived state scrounger poor people. In the 80s it was pitting highly unionised miners and teachers against non unionised people, today it's pitting non-whites, and non-british born against everyone else. These are tools of the elite to divide and conquer, pushing the battle against racism down the priority list is giving in to this, because the elite are highly skilled at using social media to cause division.
Again, you are saying we can't address racism until what you deem to be more important is addressed it is utter nonsense.
"Is it as prevalent now as it always was?"
Or put it another way has it had a massive resurge in the last 5 years, it categorically and provably has.
"Divide and conquer. Tell people they are different, make them suspicious of each other, pit them against one another. Then act with impunity. Divisions caused by race pale when compared against the divisions in opportunity afforded to different socio economic groups."
I absolutely agree with this, which is why we need to crush racism, and get poorer people to work together not against each other. 10 years ago it was pitting hard working poor people against perceived state scrounger poor people. In the 80s it was pitting highly unionised miners and teachers against non unionised people, today it's pitting non-whites, and non-british born against everyone else. These are tools of the elite to divide and conquer, pushing the battle against racism down the priority list is giving in to this, because the elite are highly skilled at using social media to cause division.
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