Labour Party finally has a credible leader again

HarryVegas said:
I might get slayed for this but here goes....

I'm a long-term Labour Party member, though not really active in terms of attending meetings etc. I voted for Corbyn as leader and came to regret it. Though I broadly share his values and aims, he was completely ineffective in terms of leadership skills. I also had a lot of sympathy for him through his disgraceful hounding by the right wing press and their allies, deliberately confusing criticism of Israeli policy with anti-Semitism - he was never anti-Semitic.

However, in the world we live in, they are going to throw this **** at any left-leaning leader and he just didn't handle it. It built and built to such a size that it became fact in the minds of voters and he never really tackled it at all. Similarly, he took an age to make decisions and steer policy, and the public were left to make their own minds up - and when you leave a big gap, people rarely fill it with positive stuff. He was indecisive and anything meaningful took an age.

In addition - and I can't speak for the country as a whole - I did a few gigs for the party, so met a lot of people active in Momentum and they were almost exclusively really hard left. I know some who are paid-up members of the Marxist/Communist Party. They were ramshackle and highly disorganised. I did one gig, looked out and thought, "I'm a member but if you lot knocked on my door I'd tell you to burger off".

These were not credible people to be out campaigning, representing the party but they were the group who backed him and kept him in power. They were absolutely vile to anyone on social media who didn't 100% agree with every single thing they said - and went in en masse. If you think left-leaning posters can get a bit rough on here some days, you've seen nothing. It was just bullying on a grand scale and was awful to watch. I confess, I mostly kept my counsel.

Lastly, I'd love to be an idealist (I still think I mostly am) but the fact is we live in a country whose people are pretty conservative by nature. They don't like radical change, especially towards the left. Now, you can shout at them from stage left that they're wrong all you like and at every election, they'll keep voting tory from now till kingdom come. Or you can moderate slightly and try and win them over. Without their votes, we are sunk.
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Brilliant post thanks for being so honest, As you say it wasn’t just the far right that has the nasty streak in them.

the dark forces around Corbyn terrifyied me should they hold any power.
 
HolgateCorner said:
The problem I have with that kind of statement is that I couldn’t see Johnson running the country either, still can’t too be honest, I know he’s ill but I can’t take him seriously as a PM.
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I can’t see how that’s a problem, I feel the same. The two aren’t mutually exclusive, BOTH can be unfit to lead this country and IMO both ARE (and I don’t mean medically at the moment obviously)

You, and politics talk in general, doesn’t have to be so polarised into an arcane “right” “left” ideology where you believe your “side” to be correct regardless.
 
zorro_mfc said:
He was mayor of London so he had led.
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I suppose the point I was making is that Labour have to have an all singing all dancing charismatic leader to even be allowed by the media (who are increasingly sophisticated in their messaging) to be considered to win an election whereas the Tories can put any old incompetent duffer up and that’s ok, because he (or she) is a Tory.
 
zorro_mfc said:
He was mayor of London so he had led.
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There is a huge difference, in fact I voted for him as Mayor of London and he was suited to that role. It wa much more moutpiece and bold ideas than the actual serious affair of running the entire country.
 
"Well he's got more chance than Corbyn has of doing that, because he's electable" - we will see.

but should he get there (with Murdochs money theres a chance) - he wont be doing any of whats required for Sick, Poor, those using foodbanks, homeless, war, nuclear, workers rights, wages, environment etc etc etc - unless his he driven, forced and dragged kicking and shouting, which he wont be, cos policies are going west and its about the dream of being in 'POWER'.- it will be a return to the blair years in terms of political outlook, international affairs, tax and public finance (initiatives).

but hey ! thats politics
 
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Wilf said:
"Well he's got more chance than Corbyn has of doing that, because he's electable" - we will see.

but should he get there (with Murdochs money theres a chance) - he wont be doing any of whats required for Sick, Poor, those using foodbanks, homeless, war, nuclear, workers rights, wages, environment etc etc etc - unless his he driven, forced and dragged kicking and shouting, which he wont be, cos policies are going west and its about the dream of being in 'POWER'.- it will be a return to the blair years in terms of political outlook, international affairs, tax and public finance (initiatives) - (the only thing he wont be doing what blair did is shag murdochs wife) I doubt sir kier will be looking at jerry hall with much enthusiasm.

so the bottom line, elected or not, he wont be delivering in any way shape or form for ordinary people (in which case whats the point of the labour party) like Corbyn would have steered through.

but, Hey ! - that's politics.
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Wow. I thought that I was a glass half empty person. I think I have met my match.
 
NYboro said:
...and just look at his legacy. A cable car to nowhere, pseudo-routemaster buses that are not fit for purpose, money "spaffed" on a garden bridge, come immediately to mind.
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Ha ha he I didn’t say he was a very good mayor I just said he was mayor.
 
Wilf said:
"Well he's got more chance than Corbyn has of doing that, because he's electable" - we will see.

but should he get there (with Murdochs money theres a chance) - he wont be doing any of whats required for Sick, Poor, those using foodbanks, homeless, war, nuclear, workers rights, wages, environment etc etc etc - unless his he driven, forced and dragged kicking and shouting, which he wont be, cos policies are going west and its about the dream of being in 'POWER'.- it will be a return to the blair years in terms of political outlook, international affairs, tax and public finance (initiatives) - (the only thing he wont be doing what blair did is shag murdochs wife) I doubt sir kier will be looking at jerry hall with much enthusiasm.

so the bottom line, elected or not, he wont be delivering in any way shape or form for ordinary people (in which case whats the point of the labour party) like Corbyn would have steered through.

but, Hey ! - that's politics.
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Hail comrade (y) - idealogical claptrap
 
Wilf said:
so the bottom line, elected or not, he wont be delivering in any way shape or form for ordinary people
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If he even delivers a single improvement to the lives of "ordinary people" it will be one more than Corbyn managed in five years. I liked Corbyn and I liked the things he wanted to do but ultimately he was a failure. Starmer is the right direction for the party now. He represents the best chance to rid ourselves of the Tories. Politics in the country will change in the aftermath of COVID-19 and experience of previous existential threats to our "way of life" suggests that the country may move to the left.

We'll see.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
" Sick, Poor, those using foodbanks, homeless, war, nuclear, workers rights, wages, environment etc"



What exactly is wrong with that ideology?
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The feasibility of getting into a position of being able to deliver it, without which it's pointless
 
Mutts, 1 (one) illegal war and the murder of innocents wipes out any gains made for ordinary people on these islands.

I think we are seeing First hand in history at this very time, that to return to a Political Status Quo of yester year is not viable, that we cant go back to operating, communicating and the non-sharing of information for the betterment of us all in such non-cooperative way(s) as previously done - and we have to stop creating wars that are to enrich people - our and others military men and women cant be used like that, we call them hero's and they deserve better than being used as pawns by finance & profit..

Equality of resources, locally, nationally and globally - and end to destructive and murderous wars - people before capitalism.

these are the political choices facing us (internationally) - leaders have vision and an understanding that things can be better.

look at the homeless during this COV19 virus, suddenly theres places for them to live (its got a cost), but its not been done out of political ideology, human dignity or love, its been done cos its a medical threat and a further conduit for the spread of the virus - (plenty couldn't give an owls hoot about those on our streets) - politically, where theres a will, theres a way - I wonder what kiers will, will be?..
 
Wilf said:
look at the homeless during this COV19 virus, suddenly theres places for them to live (its got a cost), but its not been done out of political ideology, human dignity or love, its been done cos its a medical threat and a further conduit for the spread of the virus - (plenty couldn't give an owls hoot about those on our streets) - politically, where theres a will, theres a way - I wonder what kiers will, will be?..
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Wonder if they will just boot them all out again when its all over. Call me a cynic but the funding will probably mysteriously dry up.
 
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