Brexit was and still is a Conservative party psychodrama. Abstain and let them eat it. Hopefully it will destroy them.
Labour MPs told to abstain in the Covid tier vote today
- Thread starter Soutra
- Start date
Brexit was and still is a Conservative party psychodrama. Abstain and let them eat it. Hopefully it will destroy them.
Ebor
Well-known member
Wow!!
norfolkngood
Well-known member
Bollox. especially if the someone else was Corbyn
Billy Horner
Well-known member
I actually think that was an enormous elephant trap that Starmer deliberately laid out for Johnson.
You’re absolutely right that Johnson’s instinct will be to lower some tiers in response. However, that would almost certainly be against scientific advice, especially in the run up to the Christmas relaxation of restrictions.
So Johnson ends up stuck between a rock and a hard place by either proving Starmer right or taking an enormous risk by ignoring his scientific advisers, reducing some tiers and being judged by the consequences.
Chris_Boro
Well-known member
20 points ahead...a line repeated endlessly on twitter, usually by bots.
To suggest that any Labour leader would be 20 points ahead on the polls shows a lack of understanding our current political climate.
Pog
Well-known member
This is Starmer’s leadership in a nutshell.
He’s been “forensic” in dismantling Johnson’s strategy, but hasn’t voted against it.
Weak.
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1finny
Well-known member
I don’t think it will be seen as that - (although some will)
We are in danger of believing more than around 5% of the country even bother with this stuff.
It is political and gave freedom to Tories to rebel. SNP and others took the same route. I’m a bit ‘meh’ about the approach but, if they had voted against (my preferred option) I think the Mail et al would have hammered them.
Don’t agree. There is a huge swathe of the population who will vote blue for whatever reason. They are the new ‘red wall’ and will take some shifting.
Also, its a long game and by the next election there will be at least one new leader of a major party.
I don’t believe Labour will win the next election anyway - the maths are just too hard.
The SNP and DUP etc always abstain on issues that are for England only with no direct impact on Scotland or NI.
Nuanced maybe, but Keir Starmer's line on this isn't going down well. It's neither supporting the Tories nor opposing them..
1finny
Well-known member
When you say it isn’t going down well .... I agree some people aren’t happy.
Others are fine with it.
No idea about the balance
All I do think is a few people get a bit snarky on here or twitter and we think it is realitY. I don’t think it is for the vast majority of voters.
In fact, with today’s announcement on the vaccine it has already gone (apart from the noisy few)
JM14
Well-known member
Loose loose for labour, I think most will recognise the need for restrictions and the latest polls show high levels of support for these or even tougher restrictions. The only way things can improve is if test and trace or the testing system is fixed, which we all know won’t happen.
so if they go against this now especially when vaccines are less than a few weeks away from being started, it would do nothing but cause needless deaths and likely loose more public support.
and to be honest those who are very strongly against any measures being in place, will likely be towards the further right, which they have no chance of gaining their support anyway
so if they go against this now especially when vaccines are less than a few weeks away from being started, it would do nothing but cause needless deaths and likely loose more public support.
and to be honest those who are very strongly against any measures being in place, will likely be towards the further right, which they have no chance of gaining their support anyway
Pog
Well-known member
He’s put himself into a lose, lose situation as his political instincts are none existent.
If he signalled Labour’s intentions to vote against the bill unless more money is made available to business and mass testing he could have won in two ways:
1) Got concessions from Johnson to vote for it
2) Persuaded more Tories to rebel against the government and defeat the bill
As it was he did nothing, absolutely nothing.
Millions of people being crippled financially, businesses ruined and Starmer is stood on the sidelines.
Pog
Well-known member
I don’t care what establishment political commentators think, what does abstaining achieve? Nothing. It gives the government a free pass.
He’ll do the same on Brexit.
The only thing weaker than Johnson’s leadership is the accountability from the Starmer.
This is what holding the government to account looks like...
I agree. The Tories were 20 points ahead a few months ago-Starmer has caught up with them and in some polls has been ahead- what more do you want after only 12 months of a new government?
Pog
Well-known member
So you now move away from the substance to having a go at me personally.
I fully backed Starmer initially, but I’ve been extremely underwhelmed and disappointed in his leadership.
Even Stockton South Conservative MP Matt Vickers who I have next to no respect for voted against it.
Our local Conservative MP is doing a better job at holding the government accountable than the leader of the opposition.
Decent_Left
Well-known member
Gives the Govt a free pass - bollox - The vote would have gone through anyway and all the press and news are talking about today is Tory rebels and how rebelling becomes a habit less than 12 months into an 80 seat majority.
The absolute boy Starmer did good.
Also - anyone on here a member of MS&EC CLP at all?.
Lottowyn
Well-known member
Sitting on the fence is not "did good" whether it's by Corbyn or any other party leader.
Johnson has to make decisions. He is PM. Why not show that you can be leader if you aspire to be and take the difficult option, "Don't know or being non committal is not that option.
Johnson has to make decisions. He is PM. Why not show that you can be leader if you aspire to be and take the difficult option, "Don't know or being non committal is not that option.
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Decent_Left
Well-known member
Its not sitting on the fence
Randy
Well-known member
Dead man walking.
Once the vaccine rollout is a go and Brexit b***ks is sorted he's out.
Side note, MP's should not be allowed to abstain from voting.