Labour MPs told to abstain in the Covid tier vote today

Pog said:
Zero point scrutinising it or proposing any alternatives if you’re going to then sit on the sidelines and let the government wave through what they want anyway.

You may aswell not be there.
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Voting makes no difference at all.
 
Pog said:
What part of Labour aren’t in power don’t you understand? The Tories are in power with an 80 seat majority, it’s on them if they lose any votes in the HOC.

If they’re going to accept your strategy and they’re not going to vote against anything the Tories do for the next four years because they’re scared of being blamed when they’re not even in power then this country is totally and utterly screwed.

The oppositions job is to oppose, not sit on the sidelines.
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I understand it more than you it seems as I'm not blinded by the hatred of Starmer that you are. Opposition for Opposition sake is not effective Opposition, its scrutiny, which has been denied by this government yet not once have you recognised this.

Jeremy Corbyn inflicted defeat after defeat on Boris Johnson over Brexit only to achieve an election hammering. Why? because he was framed for all the negatives and it stuck.

Which is exactly what would have happened if this bill was defeated. Tory Majority or not.
 
Had high hopes for Starmer - thought he would come in and be an intelligent statesman like leader who would bury the anti Corbyn Anti Labour rhetoric by turning the heat up on the Johnson and the Tories. Labour voters would see they had been duped and hopefully wake up and also question the leadership and governance of the country by getting behind Starmer’s crusade. I was even more hopeful because Johnson is so hopeless and inept it should have been like shooting fish in a barrel. I absolutely accept the pandemic has completely derailed any carefully laid plans Starmer might have had but personally I think he has given Johnson far too much respect and been more worried about upsetting the wider public. He simply hasn’t been nasty enough, nastiness is what got Brexit won and the Tories in power. He needs to get angry and use the facts that openly display Johnson and his party are a corrupt incompetent shambles to bury the guy. I don’t have a problem with the abstention, it allows him to not be snared into the ‘but you agreed it’ trap later down the line whilst also avoiding the ‘you put the country at risk’ charge. Johnson will now ride the crest of the vaccine wave and unless he gets in the trenches and slugs it out Starmer will follow Miliband and Corbyn into obscurity. Get rid of your strategists and grow a pair!
 
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Pog said:
Zero point scrutinising it or proposing any alternatives if you’re going to then sit on the sidelines and let the government wave through what they want anyway.
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they have an 80 seat majority, Labour cannot stop them waiving any nonsense through
 
I just think that either Pog doesn't understand the use of abstention or does and just wants to beat up on starmer.
 
The odd people I chat to who voted against Corbyn tell me they will be voting Labour next time.

Pog must mix with a different peer group to me.
 
Its clever how they put a bad choice to parliament then make it all about how labour haven't voted FOR it.. they really have got this divide and conquer down to a T...

Starmer has played it the best way he could, I doubt they would have defeated the bill and if they had what then, the govt would have just blamed everything after that point on them...
 
Strange how Johnson hasn't directed the same accusations at the 70+ Tory MPs who didn't vote for the Bill.
 
Pog said:
They have an 80 seat majority, if they lost the vote it would have been because their own MPs voted against them. It’s down to Johnson to persuade his own MPs. That’s the narrative and it’s down to you as the leader of the opposition to go out there and push it.

It’s going to be a long 4 years with your attitude because you could use your narrative for just about everything.

“We don’t agree with it, but we’re not going to vote against it because we’re scared of being blamed”.

The next one will be Brexit, which will be an absolute disaster for our economy.

If Starmer doesn’t have the courage to oppose the tier system there’s no chance he votes against a bad Brexit deal.

“Yeah it’s not a good deal, but we decide for the national interest not to vote against it as we didn’t want to be seen as being Anti-British or against the will of the people”.

Weak, weak, weak. Unless it’s against the left of course, then he becomes the Incredible Hulk.
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Nah, you don’t walk into elephant traps.

Thats how the Tories got away with the Brexit debacle 2017 to 2019 by pretending Labour were in power.

Let Johnson and friends get on with it, he needs to have ownership of what is going on right now with no excuses.
 
Pog said:
So you now move away from the substance to having a go at me personally.

I fully backed Starmer initially, but I’ve been extremely underwhelmed and disappointed in his leadership.

Even Stockton South Conservative MP Matt Vickers who I have next to no respect for voted against it.

Our local Conservative MP is doing a better job at holding the government accountable than the leader of the opposition.
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I’ve answered the substance - you don’t agree with my answer which is fair enough.

Happy to apologise if I have mislabelled you as anti Starmer regardless of what he does.
 
Pog said:
I don’t care what establishment political commentators think, what does abstaining achieve? Nothing. It gives the government a free pass.

He’ll do the same on Brexit.

The only thing weaker than Johnson’s leadership is the accountability from the Starmer.

This is what holding the government to account looks like...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1333857837626306561
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Good grief never seen anyone use him as an example
 
BoroFur said:
Strange how Johnson hasn't directed the same accusations at the 70+ Tory MPs who didn't vote for the Bill.
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thats an embarrasment for his leadership, hes trying to brush that under the carpet...

Matt Vickers voted against it and the loons here in stockto south are lapping it up that hes standing up for their rights...

in reality he knew he wasnt affecting the result but hes enamoured him self to his electorate...
 
bear66 said:
So should they have voted for restrictions or voted against the lack of financial support underpinning the restrictions?
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As I’ve already clearly stated, he should have voted against the restrictions and outlined what concessions he required for the government to gain his support.

Because that’s leadership.

As it was he asked for nothing, threatened nothing and got nothing.
 
Chris_Boro said:
I understand it more than you it seems as I'm not blinded by the hatred of Starmer that you are. Opposition for Opposition sake is not effective Opposition, its scrutiny, which has been denied by this government yet not once have you recognised this.

Jeremy Corbyn inflicted defeat after defeat on Boris Johnson over Brexit only to achieve an election hammering. Why? because he was framed for all the negatives and it stuck.

Which is exactly what would have happened if this bill was defeated. Tory Majority or not.
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“Blinded by hatred of Starmer”

Jesus Christ get over yourself. I’ve already said I supported him initially but he’s done absolutely nothing to suggest to me he can provide credible opposition and win a general election in any way other than hoping voters will eventually see him as the least s*** option.

He lost the election on Brexit because of people specifically like Starmer who never stopped trying to overturn the result. Corbyn was then attacked for sitting on the fence on Brexit, by the same people who are now cheering on Starmer whilst he’s sitting on the fence on the tier system.

It’s now reported that Starmer will impose a three line whip demanding Labour MPs back Johnson’s Brexit Deal if it comes back for a vote. The man who undermined Labour’s Brexit position for 2 years is now demanding they capitulate to the Tories hard Brexit. When it all goes wrong, they can’t blame the Tories as they’ll have voted for it.

Give me strength.
 
Pog said:
He lost the election on Brexit
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That’s an interesting statement to make about Starmer.
You wonder why some believe you are just a Starmer basher (which of course you are not)
 
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