Labour MPs told to abstain in the Covid tier vote today

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Soutra

Well-known member
I'm struggling to understand what Keir Starmer and co think this is going to achieve.

It's not going to go down well with impoverished people struggling in the current crisis.
 
The Tories have waited until the last possible moment to put the vote to the commons on yet another hashed up attempt to restrict covid as it clearly did not work last time, leaving no time for ammendments.

This leaves Labour with 3 options...

1) Vote for a tiered system bill they believe is flawed = Bad.

2) Vote against it and possibly defeat the bill which will leave us with no restrictions at all = Bad and dangerous.

Or 3) Abstain and allow the Tories to own their own problems.

Also worth mentioning that Labour are not privy to the latest scientific advice offered to the government. They have asked for Cross party collaboration but this has been ignored.

It is not Labour's fault the government are making it up as they go.
 
Keir Starmer has just ripped Boris Johnson a new ****. And then so did the SNP guy. Good to see Johnson and Hancock having such a laugh about it though.

Starmer has been quite clear exactly why he is not going to support the motion and if any impoverished person thinks he is not supporting them, as the OP suggests, then they have obviously not been listening to what he said which was all about how the Government wasn't supporting impoverished people!
 
Seems to be a lot of self preservation about this vote - many MPs not wanting to upset their constituents. They should have voted on the scheme in principle before announcing the tiers.
 
It’s about time they did something to actually oppose Government policy made on the hoof. The Tories have got away with murder this year in more ways than one.

It’s the most sensible thing Labour have done all year.
 
Ac
norfolkngood said:
Keir Starmer has just ripped Boris Johnson a new ****. And then so did the SNP guy. Good to see Johnson and Hancock having such a laugh about it though.

Starmer has been quite clear exactly why he is not going to support the motion and if any impoverished person thinks he is not supporting them, as the OP suggests, then they have obviously not been listening to what he said which was all about how the Government wasn't supporting impoverished people!
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According to the IMF we have one of the best financial support packages in the world. Happy to criticise the government but money spent is not one of them
 
Hicktonpen10 said:
Ac

According to the IMF we have one of the best financial support packages in the world. Happy to criticise the government but money spent is not one of them
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The IMF also said the UK should increase public spending on measures to protect jobs and boost infrastructure investments.

They also said that the UK should agree a settlement with the EU or risk lasting damage.
 
Chris_Boro said:
The Tories have waited until the last possible moment to put the vote to the commons on yet another hashed up attempt to restrict covid as it clearly did not work last time, leaving no time for ammendments.

This leaves Labour with 3 options...

1) Vote for a tiered system bill they believe is flawed = Bad.

2) Vote against it and possibly defeat the bill which will leave us with no restrictions at all = Bad and dangerous.

Or 3) Abstain and allow the Tories to own their own problems.

Also worth mentioning that Labour are not privy to the latest scientific advice offered to the government. They have asked for Cross party collaboration but this has been ignored.

It is not Labour's fault the government are making it up as they go.
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That's a well argued and cogent argument. I don't know if the man on the Clapham omnibus will see it that way though. Wouldn't Labour's position be clearer if the whip was to vote against? And that would force some of the Tory rebels to consider their position a bit more carefully. As it is, they can vote against, knowing that the government will win. Labour could have held their feet to the fire.

As it is, it's going to be portrayed as Labour ducking the issue. I think Keir Starmer needs to take sides. Is he going to abstain on whatever cobbled together Brexit agreement as well?
 
Soutra said:
Wouldn't Labour's position be clearer if the whip was to vote against?
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Given Labour's position is that restrictions are needed, voting against restrictions would not make that clear.

Labour's issue is that there's not enough support for people whilst the restrictions are in place, not that there are restrictions.
 
Soutra said:
That's a well argued and cogent argument. I don't know if the man on the Clapham omnibus will see it that way though. Wouldn't Labour's position be clearer if the whip was to vote against? And that would force some of the Tory rebels to consider their position a bit more carefully. As it is, they can vote against, knowing that the government will win. Labour could have held their feet to the fire.

As it is, it's going to be portrayed as Labour ducking the issue. I think Keir Starmer needs to take sides. Is he going to abstain on whatever cobbled together Brexit agreement as well?
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You only need to look at twitter to see that people are blaming Labour for not voting against.

Unfortunately many people see politics as black and white, totally oblivious to the process of parliament. Labour had the opportunity today to inflict chaos within the Tories but at the risk of public health, although I think enough of those Tories who voted against would of flipped had Labour chose to whip against to win the vote.

For Labour, abstaining on this bill was the best of bad options and the only option that leaves them with wiggle room to attack the government while ensuring that restrictions will remain.

As bad as this bill is, it is considerably better than a no restriction black hole.
 
Chris_Boro said:
You only need to look at twitter to see that people are blaming Labour for not voting against.
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If they are it only goes to prove that they have not looked at the issues and that they have not considered what Keir Starmer said.
He was quite clear throughout his speech in HP that he felt that restrictions were required. What he would not agree to where restrictions which meant that individuals and companies would lose out financially.

The only area where he blew it was in advising Tory MP's that their constituencies would not be going into a lower tier in 2 weeks time and challenged Johnson to be honest about the fact. Johnson will reduce the tiers for some areas on 16 December precisely because Starmer said it wouldn't happen.
 
At least it gave some Tories something to point at and say ‘and what about that then....?.’.

It will have taken the intense pressure off Johnson for a second or two, he didn’t look very well today on that clip in the news of all his own Tory MPs having a go at him.
 
Starmer once again shows he doesn't understand that the vast majority don't do nuance.

Totally unfit for leadership. Labour would be 20 points ahead with anyone else in charge...
 
Soutra said:
I'm struggling to understand what Keir Starmer and co think this is going to achieve.

It's not going to go down well with impoverished people struggling in the current crisis.
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they're not going to achieve anything because they are not in power. I'd be more interested in knowing what the government aim to achieve with their policies.
 
Scrote said:
Starmer once again shows he doesn't understand that the vast majority don't do nuance.

Totally unfit for leadership. Labour would be 20 points ahead with anyone else in charge...
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Not with Johnson and Rishi dishing out months of paid holidays, meal deals and other goodies to the masses, some people have had a very comfortable lockdown.
 
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