It’s looking like a potential landslide victory for Joe Biden

the handful of black people that manage to escape the poverty of the projects doesn't disprove the existence of the projects. There are only so many people that get the opportunity to get out of those places, you can't say 1 person in this street has got out, so that proves everyone can get out and have a career. There simply isn't enough unbias opportunity for them.

Have you ever stepped foot in the projects in an american city?

Come on it’s a bit more than ‘a handful’, a lot more in fact.
 
Well no I see plenty of blacks in positions of power and living perfectly normal lives as I said above. I agree plenty of blacks are living below the breadline but where do you draw the line that it’s all the fault of the state or the fault of the individuals? Nobody explains how those living working/middle class lives have over come the ‘oppression’.
It is a class issue AND a racial issue, it is the fact that people need to try and pigeon hole it as one thing and use whataboutary to try and undermine any other argument that stops anything being done.
If you simply accept that there is huge inequality in US society and that there is also systemic racism that makes that inequality even worse for some then you can start to address the problems. If you continue to try and apply whataboutary to every point then you'll never start to do anything about it.
 
It is a class issue AND a racial issue, it is the fact that people need to try and pigeon hole it as one thing and use whataboutary to try and undermine any other argument that stops anything being done.
...and lets be honest about this, the libertarian right know that if they can get poor white people angry at the poor poor black people then they won't work together against the people that oppress them both, the rich, largely white old libertarian, free market economic, power wielding, elites.
 
...and lets be honest about this, the libertarian right know that if they can get poor white people angry at the poor poor black people then they won't work together against the people that oppress them both, the rich, largely white old libertarian, free market economic, power wielding, elites.
Exactly.
It's a case of "look over there". Sad thing is that it is very effective.
 
...and lets be honest about this, the libertarian right know that if they can get poor white people angry at the poor poor black people then they won't work together against the people that oppress them both, the rich, largely white old libertarian, free market economic, power wielding, elites.
Which is exactly what I was saying surely ? It’s a class war.
 
you are actually kidding me? Are you saying that you deny the existence of police violence against black people, and you deny the reality of deaths in many cases?
I don't think he's saying that at all.

What is perplexing though is more black people kill black people and white people in America each year than police kill black people and white people. Yet we don't hear from the minority who are trying to change the black community for the better with outreach programs. I'd hazard a guess as to why this is, is because these outreach programs are usually driven and financed by local churches. Religion is bad remember. 😏
 
Which is exactly what I was saying surely ? It’s a class war.
class is an element of it, race is another element. So you haven't ever been to the projects and you haven't ever worked in an american office.

I used to work for US Foodservice just outside Baltimore, there were about 600 people in that office, I think it was 4 black people. It was the same ratio when I worked for IBP in Nebraska and even worse when I worked in Milwaukee.

Walking into the projects is enlightening, the poverty is terrible, as bad as I've seen anywhere else I've witnessed in far poorer countries. The Patterson Park projects were 15 mins away from my old waterside apartment in baltimore. A really nice area, Michael Phelps lives in the apartment opposite. But 15mins walk and it's like a different world, the 3m apartments of Fells Point lead to 20k houses, but most of the residents can't afford to buy the slum of a house anyway. It's eye opening. When you realise that the police don't allow black people into the nice areas, physically turning them away from walking down a street in a supposed free country. But of course your 2 months of watching social media clearly gives you a clearer insight into this kind of systemic racism.
 
I don't think he's saying that at all.

What is perplexing though is more black people kill black people and white people in America each year than police kill black people and white people. Yet we don't hear from the minority who are trying to change the black community for the better with outreach programs. I'd hazard a guess as to why this is, is because these outreach programs are usually driven and financed by local churches. Religion is bad remember. 😏
I've lost count of what he is saying, one moment he says racism does exist, next it doesn't. Seems like he wants to say it doesn't without opening himself up to critiscism for denying the bleeding obvious.

Black people are sucked into a life of crime, because they are born into a life of poverty, but with the double blow of having reduced opportunity of escaping poverty purely from the colour of their skin
 

NYboro

Well-known member
Have you ever stepped foot in the projects in an american city?
I work across the street from a NYCHA project in East Harlem. Most of the residents use our ER as their primary care provider. Hospitals are not allowed to turn anyone away, regardless of what you hear and they know they will never be able to pay. One of the reasons why medical bills are so high.
 
I work across the street from a NYCHA project in East Harlem. Most of the residents use our ER as their primary care provider. Hospitals are not allowed to turn anyone away, regardless of what you hear and they know they will never be able to pay. One of the reasons why medical bills are so high.
not allowed to......but it does occasionally happen
 
I've lost count of what he is saying, one moment he says racism does exist, next it doesn't. Seems like he wants to say it doesn't without opening himself up to critiscism for denying the bleeding obvious.

Black people are sucked into a life of crime, because they are born into a life of poverty, but with the double blow of having reduced opportunity of escaping poverty purely from the colour of their skin
I’m not denying there is racism, I just feel like the word is used too easily as an excuse.
You go on about ‘the bleeding obvious’ but you base it on police and crime so I go and look at those stats and they don’t match what I’m being told.
No I’ve never worked in an American office, I’ve never walked through the projects. Closest I’ve got is driving around outside of the tourist areas. I spent time in LA all over the city and I didn’t see anything out of the ordinary. Just busy streets of people from all races (no they wernt tourists).
One memory of these protests I have is back in Atlanta I watched a woman leading a march shouting about oppression and more blacks in power. She then jumped into a $30k suv and joined the line. Later on that night the ATL police did a conference, literally every official at the conference including the Atlanta mayor was black.
What they shout about doesn’t match with what you see.
 
the handful of black people that manage to escape the poverty of the projects doesn't disprove the existence of the projects. There are only so many people that get the opportunity to get out of those places, you can't say 1 person in this street has got out, so that proves everyone can get out and have a career. There simply isn't enough unbias opportunity for them.

Have you ever stepped foot in the projects in an american city?
I heard Morgan Freeman talking recently, he was saying that he disagrees with the BLM movement and disagrees that blacks are oppressed. Basically he thinks that if you work hard like he did then you can achieve anything.

I have a problem with that attitude and find it hard to agree with the 'American dream' they seem to talk so much about over there.

If you are born into the projects with no father figure, a mother who is addicted to drugs and no education what chance have you got really? There's probably 1 in a thousand who go on to play in the NFL/ NBA. Not every kid can become a Hollywood actor or politician. This idea that people are struggling in life because they don't work hard enough is moronic and something I don't like about the 'American dream'.

To be a great country surely you should be looking after the most vulnerable in society which they don't do in America, look at the levels of homelessness in some of the big cities its a disgrace. We aren't much better though in Britain.
 

Liamo

Well-known member
Where did you get this figure from? Do you have an actual source for this?

According to statista.com, 111 black people were shot to death by police so far in 2020 and obviously that doesn't include deaths from other causes - like suffocating because of a knee on your neck, for instance.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

View attachment 5320
Ah... statistics, you've got to love them... they can say whatever you want them to.

How about following this up with...

1. Number of unarmed people shot by police separated by ethnicity.
2. Number of interactions with police regardless of outcome separated by ethnicity.
3. Number of violent crimes commited separated by ethnicity

I'm sure with these we can make some better inferences.
 
I’m not denying it, I just want proof. Every claim I’ve made you’ve asked for proof and I’ve done my best to provide it. You don’t get away with just making statements based on your opinion without having to back it up with facts.
Last time I checked cops had killed 8 black people so far in 2020.
Theres approx 1000 killed by the police in us each year. Its usually 220 are black, 680 white and the remainder other ethnicities
 

Liamo

Well-known member
Ah... statistics, you've got to love them... they can say whatever you want them to.
Except this set of statistics is hardly open to much interpretation. This was a simple question of how many black people were killed by police in the US this year. @JL2020 claimed, with no proof whatsoever, that it was only 8. The site linked to above gives a fully-sourced figure of 111 killed by shooting alone.
 
Except this set of statistics is hardly open to much interpretation. This was a simple question of how many black people were killed by police in the US this year. @JL2020 claimed, with no proof whatsoever, that it was only 8. The site linked to above gives a fully-sourced figure of 111 killed by shooting alone.
It's open to an awful lot of interpretation.... for a start how many of this 111 were armed ?
 
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