Irish now suspend Astra Zeneca vaccine

Decent_Left said:
Mr Doom

Without doubt somewhere in the world there will be an individual who due to the Covid vaccine has died as a result of having it. Simple. In a case of very large numbers - and this is hundreds of millions - it has to happen, but...

We have 2 issues here

The first is Risk - The public gets fed nonsense every single day due to the miscommunication of what Risk is. Diets, Bacon sandwiches, Red wine, Catching the bus. Miscommunication, wilful or otherwise, by the intermediaries the press and media conflating a single issue without the context of the wider background. So currently the framing is 7 European countries halting AZ vaccination and it would probably also refer to Blood Clots - Alarming. The point is who reads the second paragraph - very few - and that's where the explanation of the Risk would be. So the headline is the entire story.

The second is that what's the alternative, and at the moment its randomly catch Covid and you could die.
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Yes, that's my point and something I'm not coming to terms with. These are governments we're talking about who are halting vaccination role outs. Not random people who are not fully reading headlines. It just seems really simplistic to me that they're being hugely over cautious. Surely they know all of the points outlined in this thread. Do they know more? Is it political as suggested by some. It seems crazy to me given the variables of the discussion. Especially the blood clots usually seen in the general public, regardless of having a vaccine.

*Edit - Maybe a little swift with response on this one. So the governments are looking into all of the variables concerned to gather information about ANY potential links concerning the vaccinated people and any other lifestyle choices etc...that could've contributed to blood clots versus the fact that people get them naturally anyway. OK that makes more sense.
 
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Currently there hasn’t been one proven death by covid vaccination. 140m + doses given.
There are a few investigations on going, awaiting reports.

the vaccine wasn’t rushed, it had every barrier removed, every financial requirement in place, the worlds top scientists working on it.
The 3 phase trials were the largest we’ve ever seen. Trials are still ongoing with children, pregnant women, older people etc.
The mRNA could be a game change for many illnesses.

As for facebook, i’ve never seen so many sucked into conspiracies and misinformation as I have over the last year. I’ve enjoyed twitter as random halfwits try and lecture lab scientists about PCR not being fit for purpose, halfwits lecturing immunologists that mRNA vaccines being gene therapy, when the likes of JNB, Ivor Cummins, Yeagon, Claire Craig, Heneghan are show to have been very wrong every step of the way.
people quoting David Icke as some sort of expert, qanon etc. So many peoples mental health has took a battering and many have looked for comfort in nonsense which is proved wrong at every step of the way.
 
Doom_On_Horseback said:
Yes, that's my point and something I'm not coming to terms with. These are governments we're talking about who are halting vaccination role outs. Not random people who are not fully reading headlines. It just seems really simplistic to me that they're being hugely over cautious. Surely they know all of the points outlined in this thread. Do they know more? Is it political as suggested by some. It seems crazy to me given the variables of the discussion. Especially the blood clots usually seen in the general public, regardless of having a vaccine.

*Edit - Maybe a little swift with response on this one. So the governments are looking into all of the variables concerned to gather information about ANY potential links concerning the vaccinated people and any other lifestyle choices etc...that could've contributed to blood clots versus the fact that people get them naturally anyway. OK that makes more sense.
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Hi again Mr Doom

I've just read a few articles from the Republic and Netherlands & I think politics is coming into play here. the AZ deliveries and stock issues are are at very low levels in both of those countries, so its a very low cost option to "Halt" just now as few would actually be getting AZ jabs in arms.

I really hope i'm wrong as the collateral in terms of impact on confidence in AZ is quite significant, hence this thread.

Glad to see that centre of medical excellence errrr Somalia happily taking 300k shots of AZ at the end of last week and start its vaccination programme today
 

German region asks for clarity over AstraZeneca jab​

Bavaria's State Premier Markus Soeder speaks during a news conference
EPACopyright: EPA
Markus Soeder spoke about the AstraZeneca vaccine in a news conferenceImage caption: Markus Soeder spoke about the AstraZeneca vaccine in a news conference
The leader of the German state of Bavaria, Markus Soeder, has called on the health authorities to make a clear statement about the effectiveness of the AstraZeneca vaccine.
Several European countries have suspended the use of the vaccine over concerns about possible side effects, including blood clots.
So far, no clear evidence of the vaccine’s link to blood clots has been presented.
Soeder said people needed clarity, suggesting uncertainty may lead to “a problem with its acceptance”.
“Is the vaccine good or bad? We now need statements that this vaccine is effective and can work,” Soeder, premier of Bavaria, told a news conference on Monday.
Earlier, Germany’s health ministry said it would continue to use the AstraZeneca vaccine, despite reports of side-effects.
It said it was following the guidelines of the European Medicines Agency, which says the vaccine's benefits continue to outweigh its risks.
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This is from the BBC website. They're still arguing over whether it is effective never mind the safety of it.

I'm pretty much decided that it's politics, whether at a country or EU level, that is driving these actions.
 
The AZ jab is not the only jab available. The countries seeking further verification can still use the Pfizer vaccine, with Novavax also available shortly.
 
Delaying the vaccine will cost thousands of lives - that is known. So the people that say would have got the vaccine this week, who don't, will be at much greater risk for longer. How many of those will die from Covid. If say a million are left out at risk, possibly 200 deaths say 1 in 5,000 as a result. Compared with how many have died of blood clots related to the Oxford Vaccine, as far as we no no deaths but upto 40 have had clots that could be related to OV. Let's say 2 people die from 40 clots. So we take 200 deaths to protect 2?

As said something is going on here thats not related to deaths.

Ref: Science and the EU - Switzerland's is famed for it's science sector and its never been in the EU or the EEC

Ref: Novavax - its approved in the USA
 
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zorro_mfc said:
Yep I stand by original comment it stinks this
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Why? What has this to do with the EU? Haven’t the EMA said it’s safe? Don’t these countries have their own sovereignty? How come some of the countries not using the vaccine aren’t in the EU? Your original comment doesn’t make sense based on these facts
 
SmallTown said:
Why? What has this to do with the EU? Haven’t the EMA said it’s safe? Don’t these countries have their own sovereignty? How come some of the countries not using the vaccine aren’t in the EU? Your original comment doesn’t make sense based on these facts
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It took a while for Germany who runs the EU to confirm his suspicions but they got there in the end. What were they, eighth?
 
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