India v England 4th Test

Bernieslavenschin said:
Today was objectively 'good' compared to yesterday. (A batting collapse and bowling full tosses offering an easy 40 runs at close of play)

I believe with 50-100 extra runs we would've come close to winning.

I don't make that 'good performance' statement without criticism of the team, on the same page I've posted criticism that I believe still stands and is actually in agreement with your opening points. It's dishonest to take the comment 'good performance' in isolation and imply a happiness to lose. (If your comment wasn't directed at me then apologies)

My personal take on this match overall is that we threw a strong position away, and it concerns me that, at least publicly, the team gives the impression that it can do no wrong.
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No no. I wasn't having a go at you just a general opinion.
We seem to just accept second best as long as we gave it 'a jolly good go'
I guess you could argue it's all part of being British and being polite.
And the mantra "India never lose at home" grates as well.
Tbh I expected more from Bazball. We've been very second best.
 
zzzzz said:
No no. I wasn't having a go at you just a general opinion.
We seem to just accept second best as long as we gave it 'a jolly good go'
I guess you could argue it's all part of being British and being polite.
And the mantra "India never lose at home" grates as well.
Tbh I expected more from Bazball. We've been very second best.
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Ah fair, sorry mate.

Agree I think some of that is hard wired, and probably an acceptance of how we've done historically.

Would've been great taking it to a 5th test.
 
I reckon Vaughan's point around missing players for India is a strong one.
Kohli, Pant, Bumrah - these are world class, then you have Rahul and Shami, brilliant cricketers.
Brook is awesome and Leach pretty decent, but there loss was/is way, way more than ours.
 
On another note. Would it not be beneficial for young promising English spinners to go out and play some first class cricket in the sub-continent? Gain some experience of being used as a front line wicket taking bowler on pitches that allow them to excel rather than just holding an end on pitches that do nothing for them in this country. Maybe doing 1 or 2 seasons in India or Pakistan early in their career could really improve their career.
 
B_G said:
And he's still getting air time? Unbelievable that
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He’s gone down a lot on my estimation. It’s worth noting he was found not guilty of Racism in the Azeem Rafiq investigation but those tweets are crass and stupid, particularly the Moeen Ali one.

Regarding the spin bowlers. I think it’s a difficult one to move to the sub continent and play first class cricket. I’d imagine there are quite a lot of hoops to jump through to play in Pakistan for security reasons.

India too will have a load of spinners already in their first class set up as well so they wouldn’t necessarily be first choice.

I think we’ve found a gem in Bashir though. I’d like to see him involved in the summer.
 
zzzzz said:
Tbh I thought you were referring to the unprovan 'you lot' comments.
I knew nothing about those other tweets which as you say are unsavoury at best.
Changed my opinion of him if thats the kind of thing he's happy to throw around.
Thanks for educating me.
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Strangely those two tweets, made 14 years ago, only resurfaced in 2021 but they do show that his defence to a charge of racism in the Rafiq case is severely weakened
 
B_G said:
Would it not be beneficial for young promising English spinners to go out and play some first class cricket in the sub-continent? Gain some experience of being used as a front line wicket taking bowler on pitches that allow them to excel rather than just holding an end on pitches that do nothing for them in this country. Maybe doing 1 or 2 seasons in India or Pakistan early in their career could really improve their career.
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Great idea but try and convince a young lad who already has to spend a lot of time away from home to go and spend a summer in India playing for a lot less than he'd get in England in front of no one.
 
atypical_boro said:
Great idea but try and convince a young lad who already has to spend a lot of time away from home to go and spend a summer in India playing for a lot less than he'd get in England in front of no one.
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Yea, this sort of crossed my mind and my only solution to that was some sort of scheme where the ECB topped up their money and maybe accommodated them etc. If they knew there was a progression route into the England team I think you could convince players to do it.

There's probably dozens of reasons why this can't be done :ROFLMAO:
 
On The Bob said:
The bloke is a bell end.
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The comments about London aren't exactly nuclear. Its the sort of thing lots of people visiting London say, even if they maybe come across as a bit ignorant in print. He isn't exactly wrong when he says lots of non-English speakers live in London, and he doesn't actually say he has a problem with it. Certainly wouldn't class it as racist anyway.

The Moeen comments were daft, but it was in response to the Manchester bomb/London stabbings and I dare say he wasn't speaking entirely rationally, but it was a very scary time.

Just my opinion, but Michael Vaughan's views are quite a long way down the pecking order in terms of those I'd like to persuade to think differently. I have friends and family who have said way worse stuff than this and I haven't 'cancelled' them.
 
atypical_boro said:
The comments about London aren't exactly nuclear. Its the sort of thing lots of people visiting London say, even if they maybe come across as a bit ignorant in print. He isn't exactly wrong when he says lots of non-English speakers live in London, and he doesn't actually say he has a problem with it. Certainly wouldn't class it as racist anyway.

The Moeen comments were daft, but it was in response to the Manchester bomb/London stabbings and I dare say he wasn't speaking entirely rationally, but it was a very scary time.

Just my opinion, but Michael Vaughan's views are quite a long way down the pecking order in terms of those I'd like to persuade to think differently. I have friends and family who have said way worse stuff than this and I haven't 'cancelled' them.
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They aren’t nuclear, but why bother even making a thing of it?

The circumstances around the Manchester bombing were scary. My gut instinct wasn’t to start asking my Muslim friends to go hunt down terrorists. It was insensitive and unnecessary.

When I used to follow him on Twitter, I came to the quick realisation that I didn’t agree with him on many things. Part of me feels he likes to intentionally be controversial on certain subjects.

I’m not “cancelling” anybody. I just don’t have much time for what he has to say.

You’re right, there are many fruit loops in the world who’ll have more extreme views than he does. I avoid them as well.
 
On The Bob said:
The circumstances around the Manchester bombing were scary. My gut instinct wasn’t to start asking my Muslim friends to go hunt down terrorists. It was insensitive and unnecessary.
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I agree, and it wasn't something I'd have ever said or done myself, but I just don't think I'd absolutely condemn someone for making comments like that in the wake of a terrifying atrocity. I suppose I just like to try and give people the benefit of the doubt, where possible.
 
atypical_boro said:
I agree, and it wasn't something I'd have ever said or done myself, but I just don't think I'd absolutely condemn someone for making comments like that in the wake of a terrifying atrocity. I suppose I just like to try and give people the benefit of the doubt, where possible.
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I get that. My opinion on him was changing well before those tweets came light. They were probably the final straw for me if anything. I suppose I expected better.

As I say, he used to be a big hero of mine. He was one of the few top class batsmen England had in an era we were pretty crap. The 2004 Ashes Series was amazing. He was a great captain.
 
On The Bob said:
I get that. My opinion on him was changing well before those tweets came light. They were probably the final straw for me if anything. I suppose I expected better.

As I say, he used to be a big hero of mine. He was one of the few top class batsmen England had in an era we were pretty crap. The 2004 Ashes Series was amazing. He was a great captain.
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Fair enough.
 
atypical_boro said:
Great idea but try and convince a young lad who already has to spend a lot of time away from home to go and spend a summer in India playing for a lot less than he'd get in England in front of no one.
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It doesn’t devalue the point you make much, but their domestic season is in the English winter. This year’s Ranji Trophy runs from the beginning of the year to mid-March.
 
FishofContemplation said:
It doesn’t devalue the point you make much, but their domestic season is in the English winter. This year’s Ranji Trophy runs from the beginning of the year to mid-March.
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Yes, I suppose as long as they're not involved with the Lions or whatever it is possible. But they'd have to be quite far down the pecking order I guess?
 
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