India Covid Situation - Big Improvement

bear66 said:
That's one that isn't being used. Next?
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OK, I see where you have to go with this.

You can't argue that it hasn't been around for decades
You can't argue that it hasn't been administered billions of times
You can't argue that is has side effects
You can't argue that it hasn't been proven in-vitro to work against multiple viruses
But you can argue that it hasn't been used in-vivo (apart from for covid obviously)

You're right, we should just ignore it.... or better still clamour for "proper testing" while millions die.

As I've said before, I'm not anti-vaccine, I'm vaccinated, and the work that has gone into creating these new vaccines is incredible.
I do find it unbelievable that anyone can have nitpicky arguments like this (and you're by no means alone) when a proven safe drug might even be 5% effective and could help the world, especially the poorer parts that won't be getting a vaccine any time soon, to get to herd immunity.
Isn't that what all reasonable humans want ?
 
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smogontherhine said:
OK, I see where you have to go with this.

You can't argue that it hasn't been around for decades
You can't argue that it hasn't been administered billions of times
You can't argue that is has side effects
You can't argue that it has been proven in-vitro to work against multiple viruses
But you can argue that it hasn't been used in-vivo (apart from for covid obviously)

You're right, we should just ignore it.... or better still clamour for "proper testing" while millions die.

As I've said before, I'm not anti-vaccine, I'm vaccinated, and the work that has gone into creating these new vaccines is incredible.
I do find it unbelievable that anyone can have nitpicky arguments like this (and you're by no means alone) when a proven safe drug might even be 5% effective and could help the world, especially the poorer parts that won't be getting a vaccine any time soon, to get to herd immunity.
Isn't that what all reasonable humans want ?
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I didn't say any of that, but no one should promote a medication that hasn't been through a rigorous process of test controls, particularly for longer term prophylactic use.
 
Andy_W said:
Why? This is going to go on for a couple of years, or are you only thinking about yourself?

You might have to wait a couple of weeks on fully opening up on the 17th mind, or if we do open up on the 17th then we may get hit with an increase on restrictions towards the end of summer, albeit probably not for long.

Pfizer has just been approved by 12-15 years olds in the UK too now though, which is absolutely massive news, and will greatly help with preventing any future issues, and decrease the peak of any third wave, if it materialises.
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You do know that this approval of the vaccine in 12-15 year olds is just going to move restrictions further down the line until they are all vaccinated don't you?

The vast majority of the British public have June 21st as "freedom day" (the media love a buzz phrase) so will more than likely tell the government to stick it anyways.

Why would we get hit with more restrictions compared to last year when we didn't have a vaccine then?
 
Randy said:
You do know that this approval of the vaccine in 12-15 year olds is just going to move restrictions further down the line until they are all vaccinated don't you?

The vast majority of the British public have June 21st as "freedom day" (the media love a buzz phrase) so will more than likely tell the government to stick it anyways.

Why would we get hit with more restrictions compared to last year when we didn't have a vaccine then?
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It's obvious, it is those selfish anti-vaxxer b@stards fault.
 
smogontherhine said:
Doesn't its use against River Blindness since 1987 count ?

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I presume you're not being serious?

Neither anti-viral, not prophylactic and a standard dosage rather than the 'snake oil merchant' use of a variety of dosages at the moment.

Great to see you promoting the philanthropic work of Big Pharma though.
 
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bear66 said:
I presume you're not being serious?

Neither anti-viral, not prophylactic and a standard dosage rather than the 'snake oil merchant' use of a variety of dosages at the moment.
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Bear why such a pushback against a drug that has been used for decades yet when some people push back against the vaccine that has been in use for less than a year they are slaughtered?

Anything that helps should be welcomed not second guessed.
 
Randy said:
Bear why such a pushback against a drug that has been used for decades yet when some people push back against the vaccine that has been in use for less than a year they are slaughtered?

Anything that helps should be welcomed not second guessed.
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The vaccine was rigorously tested. This drug hasn't. I'm horrified at the dosage figures being used prophylactically without any rigorous trials. That is totally second guessed.
 
bear66 said:
The vaccine was rigorously tested. This drug hasn't. I'm horrified at the dosage figures being used prophylactically without any rigorous trials. That is totally second guessed.
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If that's the case why is it still in a trial period?

I haven't read any stories with regards to deaths caused by the use of Ivermectin in the treatment of covid but we've obviously read stories of deaths caused by this vaccine. Why is that? Surely if this drug was as dangerous as some make out it would be the other way round, we wouldn't hear anything about vaccine reactions and plenty about reactions to ivermectin.
 
Randy said:
If that's the case why is it still in a trial period?

I haven't read any stories with regards to deaths caused by the use of Ivermectin in the treatment of covid but we've obviously read stories of deaths caused by this vaccine. Why is that? Surely if this drug was as dangerous as some make out it would be the other way round, we wouldn't hear anything about vaccine reactions and plenty about reactions to ivermectin.
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17000




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smogontherhine said:
I used to when (like I mentioned on another thread) I believed that the WHO was wholly funded by governments.
Now that I know it's not.
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So? Do you not think others donating, actually helps?
What about before they got outside funding, do you think they were good then? When did they go from good to bad, and why?
Do you think Bill Gates (and his foundation) hasn't done good for the world previous, and now?
Are you one of his kids, ***ed off that your "inheritance" has been spent trying to fix hunger and poverty?
 
Randy said:
You do know that this approval of the vaccine in 12-15 year olds is just going to move restrictions further down the line until they are all vaccinated don't you?

The vast majority of the British public have June 21st as "freedom day" (the media love a buzz phrase) so will more than likely tell the government to stick it anyways.

Why would we get hit with more restrictions compared to last year when we didn't have a vaccine then?
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Erm nope, as protection increases, the end of all restrictions (for good) comes nearer, not further.
A lot of the spread is coming from that age group (along with other unvaccinated age groups), the sooner some of them are vaccinated the faster we will be on top of it and can then "relax". If that gets us to herd immunity faster then this massively reduces our chances of ever needing further restrictive measures, or needing to maintain current ones for as long. It's a bonus, which is great.

Good luck with that, that's if they do decide to hold for a couple of weeks. I actually don't think they will delay (as they won't want the bad press, and morons kicking off), and they may pay the price with a possible third wave, albeit it will likely be lower than the other two waves. Cases are doubling every 14 days at the minute, so even if we did make an error and not delay 21st, then it won't be as bad as March 20, when it was doubling every 3 days.
Also, people have "freedom" now, you should be thankful for what we have. You will probably find that most will accept another couple of weeks as we are, as what we have now is fine over summer, and two weeks now is better than two months in September or whatever.

Last summer we didn't have alpha (which is miles worse) and we also didn't have delta, which is much worse again. The previous coverage of a single vaccine against old variants is less than against new variants, but largely unchanged on a double dose. That's why there's a drive for double doses, and it's a close race between the double dosed and delta. Personally, having just had one vaccine, if we get over 10k cases I won't bother going out, like I have been doing, it;s not worth the risk of long covid, and whatever that ends up as.
I don't think we will need to go "full lockdown" again mind, as vaccines and science will bail us out (like it's bailing us out now), but we could end up with the same restrictions as we have now, in the future, if we go softer too early.
 
Andy_W said:
So? Do you not think others donating, actually helps?
What about before they got outside funding, do you think they were good then? When did they go from good to bad, and why?
Do you think Bill Gates (and his foundation) hasn't done good for the world previous, and now?
Are you one of his kids, p****d off that your "inheritance" has been spent trying to fix hunger and poverty?
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I would prefer the WHO to be totally independent of any financial influence but accept that is unrealistic... after all governments themselves aren't. I still think at the very least they should only be funded by governments and everything should be completely transparent. I do have a problem that an organisation that promotes vaccines is the 6th largest contributor even accepting that vaccines have been enormously beneficial to world health.
As for Bill Gates, he has clearly been incredibly philanthropic and as far as I can see mostly honest in his motives. He still shouldn't be funding the WHO though, it would be the same as him funding the UN.
 
Funky_Chicken said:
For anyone interested - vaccine statistics
https://twitter.com/x/status/1397930671306383362




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The breakdown for each vaccine can be found here.

www.gov.uk

Coronavirus vaccine - summary of Yellow Card reporting

www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

The list for Astra Zeneca is over 100 pages long and includes reactions such as

Fever 59,909
Chills 40,438
Fatigue 43,461
Nausea 30,216
Vomiting 10,105
Malaise 10,890
Muscle pain 24,331
Joint pain 19,846
Pain 14,297
Pain in
extremities 18,331
Decreased appetite 5,901
Dizziness 19,039
 
homersapien said:
The breakdown for each vaccine can be found here.

www.gov.uk

Coronavirus vaccine - summary of Yellow Card reporting

www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

The list for Astra Zeneca is over 100 pages long and includes reactions such as

Fever 59,909
Chills 40,438
Fatigue 43,461
Nausea 30,216
Vomiting 10,105
Malaise 10,890
Muscle pain 24,331
Joint pain 19,846
Pain 14,297
Pain in
extremities 18,331
Decreased appetite 5,901
Dizziness 19,039
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I’d say death is probably the worst side effect




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Funky_Chicken said:
I’d say death is probably the worst side effect




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Absolutely. Just as the excess deaths that happen around the times of large covid outbreaks is the best way of assessing the impact of covid so the deaths that follow vaccinations that exceed the amount you would expect in the population vaccinated is a useful measure of the risk from being vaccinated.

However the twitter thread doesn't try to do that. It quotes large numbers of adverse reaction without attempting to pull out the reactions which leads to more deaths than expected. That would have been genuinely useful.
 
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