In praise of EV'S

I'm sure at times it is far more convenient with an EV. I think at the moment though people take comfort from the relative reliability of using ICE in terms of available filling stations. If you're travelling with small kids for example on a long journey you don't want any doubt over your refuelling plan and the speed of it.
We live in the countryside and make longish journeys to countryside locations (for cycling, camping etc) and i'm not sure what the EV charging availability is generally like, i've never really looked into it, i should do really but it's worth making the point that for everybody it's not all about motorways and main routes.
This is a good point and, if we are honest, the charging infrastructure isn't as ubiquitous as it should be and my fave topic, destination charging, certainly isn't there yet. we don't have chargers in every hotel car park for example which should be a bear minimum.

I only really start these threads because there is so much disinformation around refuelling in particular so I'm trying to share reality and not what the papers say.

For example the article redwurzel shared about EV taking an hour to "fill". Whilst this is true for some EV on some rapid chargers, it's not true for many. It's a moot point though as no one actually fills their car. Real world example from last week: I travelled from Manchester to Brentford. I had 84% state of charge when I started my journey and I hadn't charged before setting off which in an ideal world you do on cold days as the battery gets warm. I had to stop, I stopped needing an 11 minute charge to get home. By the time I had gone for a wee and bought a cuppa my charge was complete and I carried on without any inconvenience.
 
Once again, there's far too many if buts and maybes with these EVs. For anyone looking at long-term ownership with an emphasis on reliability, they have no track record. They also cost a fortune. Yes, the figures can be spun to make it sound not so expensive. But in reality that isn't true. Get a decent EV and you're going to have to shell out a fortune up front or take on a significant liability with monthly payment. At the end of that contract - you end up with nothing, unless you repeat the process again and again.
 
Once again, there's far too many if buts and maybes with these EVs. For anyone looking at long-term ownership with an emphasis on reliability, they have no track record. They also cost a fortune. Yes, the figures can be spun to make it sound not so expensive. But in reality that isn't true. Get a decent EV and you're going to have to shell out a fortune up front or take on a significant liability with monthly payment. At the end of that contract - you end up with nothing, unless you repeat the process again and again.
I guess it's asking too much from you, but everyone else you have to stop perpetuating this "cost a fortune' lie.

EV are slightly very slightly more expensive than their ICE equivalent and if you get the government grant they have parity or are cheaper.

Gent will still lie, because he lied about me on this thread and refused to apologise but everyone else, please realise the EV cost a fortune lie is just that. A lie.

Also re reliability: most EV motors are based on the technology on the prius hybrid which has been around for years and years and has sold many units. Without any major drama. And of course, they simply have less "stuff" to go wrong. I've had to replace exhausts, clutches, a cylinder head and a starter motor on previous cars. I'll be spared this with my EV
 
I guess it's asking too much from you, but everyone else you have to stop perpetuating this "cost a fortune' lie.

EV are slightly very slightly more expensive than their ICE equivalent and if you get the government grant they have parity or are cheaper.

Gent will still lie, because he lied about me on this thread and refused to apologise but everyone else, please realise the EV cost a fortune lie is just that. A lie.

Also re reliability: most EV motors are based on the technology on the prius hybrid which has been around for years and years and has sold many units. Without any major drama. And of course, they simply have less "stuff" to go wrong. I've had to replace exhausts, clutches, a cylinder head and a starter motor on previous cars. I'll be spared this with my EV
How much are you paying a month to rent yours ??
 
It's young technology. I'm quite happy for others to be guinue pigs while all the infastructure is sorted and while manufacturers improve the product. As our very clever government have said that petrol cars will be phased out, it will be up to these same clever people to sort out issues such as thousands of cars wanting to charge at motorway services at the same time, and for the recycling of the dirty batteries to be sorted etc.
 
It's young technology. I'm quite happy for others to be guinue pigs while all the infastructure is sorted and while manufacturers improve the product. As our very clever government have said that petrol cars will be phased out, it will be up to these same clever people to sort out issues such as thousands of cars wanting to charge at motorway services at the same time, and for the recycling of the dirty batteries to be sorted etc.
It's not that young to be fair. The current type of electric motor has been used in private road vehicles for 20 years.
 
These EVs cost a fortune compared to buying a well researched and proven used petrol vehicle. I've done the maths on swapping my vehicle for a EV. The cost is astronomical. As things stand, buying a new EV isn't that environmental friendly. There's all sorts of issues.

At the end of the day, if you want an electric vehicle, just convert your petrol or diesel to one. Surely that has to be the best way to do it. These guys buying a new EV every couple of years are the problem - they are solving nothing!
 
These EVs cost a fortune compared to buying a well researched and proven used petrol vehicle. I've done the maths on swapping my vehicle for a EV. The cost is astronomical. As things stand, buying a new EV isn't that environmental friendly. There's all sorts of issues.

At the end of the day, if you want an electric vehicle, just convert your petrol or diesel to one. Surely that has to be the best way to do it. These guys buying a new EV every couple of years are the problem - they are solving nothing!
EVs also cost a fortune compared to buying a back. The fact you're repeating the "EVs cost a fortune" lie by deliberately not comparing like for like shows you're pretty much a lost cause.

And of course the fact you lied about me in your first post and won't apologise.
 
EVs also cost a fortune compared to buying a back. The fact you're repeating the "EVs cost a fortune" lie by deliberately not comparing like for like shows you're pretty much a lost cause.

And of course the fact you lied about me in your first post and won't apologise.
What lie?

EVs do cost a fortune. This has been stated in parliament and there is a general consensus that prices need to come down.
 
What lie?

EVs do cost a fortune. This has been stated in parliament and there is a general consensus that prices need to come down.
The first lie was that I always recommend an EV. That was a personal lie and, as such, the one I'm upset about. EV do not cost a fortune compared to the equivalent ICE. I would say if both cars are under £35000 there is a parity in price with the grant.
 
We were considering a VW ID3. With the full deposit put down on PCP and taking it out over 4 years with a £8k final payment the instalments were around £430 a month. The wife does 30k a year so the savings on fuel would have been massive and overall we'd still be having £100 a month despite the higher monthly costs.

Range was not a problem, she commutes 60 miles each way. Just charge on an evening when home.

We occasionally travel to Kent but stop for 30 minutes anyway for food / toilet so that was never a concern.

What was the main concern though was the value of the car in 4 years time with 120k miles on it. It could well have been less than the final payment which would mean we'd lose a chuck of change and have to find another £8k to get a new one. 2 VW dealers tried to put us off PCP due to this.

Having thought about it long and hard, and no one having any idea what the car might be worth with those miles on it we have decided to go diesel for 2-3 years and then look at the ID3 again then. I was gutted!
 
We were considering a VW ID3. With the full deposit put down on PCP and taking it out over 4 years with a £8k final payment the instalments were around £430 a month. The wife does 30k a year so the savings on fuel would have been massive and overall we'd still be having £100 a month despite the higher monthly costs.

Range was not a problem, she commutes 60 miles each way. Just charge on an evening when home.

We occasionally travel to Kent but stop for 30 minutes anyway for food / toilet so that was never a concern.

What was the main concern though was the value of the car in 4 years time with 120k miles on it. It could well have been less than the final payment which would mean we'd lose a chuck of change and have to find another £8k to get a new one. 2 VW dealers tried to put us off PCP due to this.

Having thought about it long and hard, and no one having any idea what the car might be worth with those miles on it we have decided to go diesel for 2-3 years and then look at the ID3 again then. I was gutted!
Tesla hold their value really well. I guess we just don't know with the ID.3 because it hasn't been out long enough. There's no reason to think it'll depreciate worse than a diesel car mind. It's worth thinking about, to, that was the years pass by and we get closer ot the death of the ICE vehicle, diesels are going to start depreciating pretty quickly
 
Tesla hold their value really well. I guess we just don't know with the ID.3 because it hasn't been out long enough. There's no reason to think it'll depreciate worse than a diesel car mind. It's worth thinking about, to, that was the years pass by and we get closer ot the death of the ICE vehicle, diesels are going to start depreciating pretty quickly

I would have loved a Tesla but sadly it was out of reach for us.

Yeah, that was my thinking regarding depreciation too. Everything is pointing towards EV's holding their value whilst other cars don't so well but it would be an expensive (if well informed) gamble to bite the bullet now.

If her office moved closer we'd jump to the ID3 pretty quickly I'd think but with the mileage as it is we are having to play it safe.

It's such a shame as EV's with their reduced engine parts, cheaper and more environmentally friendly fuel and time saved filling up should be perfect for the commutes she is doing!
 
You are correct in that this was a motorway service station in Portugal where he charged for a period at the fastest charging rate to see how quick it was, but was then shocked by what he was charged. Part of what he was pointing out was the high cost of electricity purchased this way, and that by doing that his journey cost him more than it would have done in an ICE equivalent.
Service stations dishing out the fastest charges generally cost double what home electric does.

So that would put my 400BHP 0-60 in 5 seconds SUV down to around 50mpg equivalent, it is still twice as good as what an equivalent car would be. I mention the power and speed as what I get (around 2.5miles per KW) is not far off half what most ev's get (they're not as fast/ more efficient). He's probably comparing a 0-60 in 3 seconds Taycan with 50mpg, which is not the right way to go, a performance car at similar speed would be <20mpg.
 
Service stations dishing out the fastest charges generally cost double what home electric does.

So that would put my 400BHP 0-60 in 5 seconds SUV down to around 50mpg equivalent, it is still twice as good as what an equivalent car would be. I mention the power and speed as what I get (around 2.5miles per KW) is not far off half what most ev's get (they're not as fast/ more efficient). He's probably comparing a 0-60 in 3 seconds Taycan with 50mpg, which is not the right way to go, a performance car at similar speed would be <20mpg.
This seems to be one of the new problems. Not comparing like for like. People tell me my car is expensive. Which it is. It is also aimed fair and square at beating the BMW M3. Which is equally expensive. Incidentally the M3 returns 19MPG and has a 14 gallon fuel tank, which by my terrible maths means it has worse range than my car (266 miles?)? Genuinely: I think I've got that wrong so can someone verify. It would be interesting if I hadn't mind.

There is so much misinformation around EV at the moment and it seems false comparisons are the latest. Lies about them being much more expensive or no better for the environment have been disproven which is nice. As this thread shows though, people are still keen to repeat these lies.
 
What lie?

EVs do cost a fortune. This has been stated in parliament and there is a general consensus that prices need to come down.
They don't, not when you factor in TCO, and compare like for like. The ticket price isn't the only price, far from it, it's about 1/10th of the equation. Yes they do cost more on the ticket price, but this largely gets off set as you get more back for it by a similar figure. Then the fuel is half the price at worst, there's no VED, servicing's cheaper, less "wear" parts etc.

The easiest comparison is on new cars of similar spec, harder to do on older cars as enough haven't filtered through yet, but they will over the coming years. The tech has increased a lot over the last 2-3 years, and there's a lot more choice, so when the cars out "now" filter down, it will make a big difference. My bet is they're going to hold their value better than ICE, they are already.
 
This seems to be one of the new problems. Not comparing like for like. People tell me my car is expensive. Which it is. It is also aimed fair and square at beating the BMW M3. Which is equally expensive. Incidentally the M3 returns 19MPG and has a 14 gallon fuel tank, which by my terrible maths means it has worse range than my car (266 miles?)? Genuinely: I think I've got that wrong so can someone verify. It would be interesting if I hadn't mind.

There is so much misinformation around EV at the moment and it seems false comparisons are the latest. Lies about them being much more expensive or no better for the environment have been disproven which is nice. As this thread shows though, people are still keen to repeat these lies.
You're right on the maths of the M3, I've had similar 200-250 mile range on other performance cars, if you put your foot down, you get more if you don't put your foot down, but still not great. It's also partially to do with weight, the added fuel is adding weight. They could put a 40 gallon tank in, but would hamper performance, and also cost £240 to fill up :LOL: They figure most people can get by on a 200-250 mile range, and they can.

I think people just don't understand TCO, or not in enough detail, but it's simple for me as I work with numbers and spreadsheets all day, every day. People also way overestimate how many long trips they go on, and then underestimate how many times they stop for a burger on those long trips.
 
Adding to the above, I've had about 20 ICE cars, and still have two others in the household, but wouldn't be swapping my EV (and a big upgrade on that) if my maths on the original EV were not sound, and the EV is what I drive 95% of the time.
 
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