In praise of EV'S

SmallTown

Well-known member
Little scenario made me chuckle today. One of the constant and misunderstood anti EV "arguments" is the inconvenience of charging. People, whether through misunderstanding or plain belligerence will argue hard and fast that refuelling and EV is worse than refuelling an ICE vehicle because it's different.

The other half was late for netball today and she asked if she could take my EV that had been happily refueling as we slept. It was because she didn't have time to refuel her diesel! It's like I said all along, it becomes more convenient to refuel an EV when you get used to it
 

Jonny Ingbar

Well-known member
I think there are some obvious problems and cons with EV, verses the ICE, which can be mitigated dependent upon your needs.

The thing that prevents me going down the EV route is the inconvenience caused by journeys longer than the range, aside from that EV makes sense.

As a bit of a car need I also love the sound of an ICE and as much as its environmentally unfriendly, I intend to hang onto that as long as I can!
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
The thing that prevents me going down the EV route is the inconvenience caused by journeys longer than the range, aside from that EV makes sense.
I have to go travel from Kent to Durham occasionally as my daughter is at Durham Uni. 300 miles there, I stop at Grantham for 30mins to charge, but I'd have to stop for a pee, a coffee and a sandwich anyway, which I now eat as I watch netflix in the car. 30 mins, off again and that's it. Depending on what I'm doing the next day and where I'm staying I sometime do a 15 min 'splash and dash' stop at scotch corner. Flip side is I never have to go to the petrol station and queue up before setting off, so it evens out time-wise
 

Lightweight

Active member
I have a electric Kia Niro and arrived home last night at 11pm with 17 miles left and the power was off due to storms ( car obviously cannot charge). The power is still not on today and would have been unable to visit the in laws to check they are safe without my wife’s diesel car. So whilst I love my EV I am so glad my wife’s car is not one.( my wife did chuckle also as I constantly preach to her of the benefit of EV)
 

Jonny Ingbar

Well-known member
I have to go travel from Kent to Durham occasionally as my daughter is at Durham Uni. 300 miles there, I stop at Grantham for 30mins to charge, but I'd have to stop for a pee, a coffee and a sandwich anyway, which I now eat as I watch netflix in the car. 30 mins, off again and that's it. Depending on what I'm doing the next day and where I'm staying I sometime do a 15 min 'splash and dash' stop at scotch corner. Flip side is I never have to go to the petrol station and queue up before setting off, so it evens out time-wise
I get that we're all different, but I'd rather not stop at all to be honest 🙂
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
I think there are some obvious problems and cons with EV, verses the ICE, which can be mitigated dependent upon your needs.

The thing that prevents me going down the EV route is the inconvenience caused by journeys longer than the range, aside from that EV makes sense.

As a bit of a car need I also love the sound of an ICE and as much as its environmentally unfriendly, I intend to hang onto that as long as I can!
I get what you're saying about range bit it just doesn't seem to be a thing with the bigger cars. Fun fact: range anxiety was invented by GM when their EV1 failed. Genuinely it's a construct designed by a company trying to cling on to ICE.

Charge speeds aren't as long as you think, I had to stop (didn't set off with a full charge) on my journey from Manchester to Brentford and had to charge for 11 minutes. By the time I'd gone for a wee it was done (con: the chargers were at the back of the car park so it's a long walk). Range anxiety and the "long journey" argument are not a thing for 90% of drivers who don't make long journeys weekly.

I totally agree with the last paragraph. As ridiculously quick as my car is (same 0-60 time as a ferrari Enzo) it's certainly not an engaging drive. When I watch motorsports live most of the joy is from the physical experience. The noise, the vibrations and the even the smell of the burnt fuel. If I had the money the Tesla would be a work tool and a TVR griffith or chimera as a "car"
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
I have to go travel from Kent to Durham occasionally as my daughter is at Durham Uni. 300 miles there, I stop at Grantham for 30mins to charge, but I'd have to stop for a pee, a coffee and a sandwich anyway, which I now eat as I watch netflix in the car. 30 mins, off again and that's it. Depending on what I'm doing the next day and where I'm staying I sometime do a 15 min 'splash and dash' stop at scotch corner. Flip side is I never have to go to the petrol station and queue up before setting off, so it evens out time-wise
Last sentence is a good point. When people argue about refuelling ICE v EV the ICE defenders act as if it takes zero time to refuel an ICE. This isn't true. It's certainly quicker to "fill up" but here's the thing: you don't fill up an EV. And EV chargers tend to be where you're going anyway. Even at service stations filling up with fossil fuels necessitates a trip to another area. All of this adds time.
 

dooderooni

Well-known member
When Omicron gets us all and we're wearing American football pads, studded jockstraps and necklaces made of Barbie heads, the ICE will be king!
 

Soutra

Well-known member
I get what you're saying about range bit it just doesn't seem to be a thing with the bigger cars. Fun fact: range anxiety was invented by GM when their EV1 failed. Genuinely it's a construct designed by a company trying to cling on to ICE.

Range anxiety and the "long journey" argument are not a thing for 90% of drivers who don't make long journeys weekly.
Who invented it I don't know, but range anxiety absolutely is an issue, and the biggest issue stopping electric vehicles proliferating. 90% of car journeys may be just local trips, but most drivers make longer journeys from time to time. Stories in the press about charging stations being out of order, or long queues at the chargers at motorway services are real and not imagined. Top Gear last Sunday covered this issue.

Just saying range anxiety isn't an issue when plainly it is won't help.
 

BiggEggo

Well-known member
I get that we're all different, but I'd rather not stop at all to be honest 🙂
I'm the same. Once I get in the zone for a long journey I'm happy to get the journey done.

It does seem to me that the industry is trying to normalise having to make stops.

As I understand it (from people I know in the EV battery industry) the next gen of EV's will have superior battery tech that will deliver much improved range. It could have a very negative impact on residual values of today's models.

I've driven plenty of EV's and in general I have no complaints about the product, other than actual range performance.

For that reason I won't make the jump with my main car. We will probably swap the Mrs car for one in the next 18 months or so - as residuals srart to fall..
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
Who invented it I don't know, but range anxiety absolutely is an issue, and the biggest issue stopping electric vehicles proliferating. 90% of car journeys may be just local trips, but most drivers make longer journeys from time to time. Stories in the press about charging stations being out of order, or long queues at the chargers at motorway services are real and not imagined. Top Gear last Sunday covered this issue.

Just saying range anxiety isn't an issue when plainly it is won't help.
General motors invented it and it really is a fake "issue ". Charger concerns, which is what you describe, currently exist. Range anxiety is a made up construct to slow down EV take up. That's an actual fact
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
I'm the same. Once I get in the zone for a long journey I'm happy to get the journey done.

It does seem to me that the industry is trying to normalise having to make stops.

As I understand it (from people I know in the EV battery industry) the next gen of EV's will have superior battery tech that will deliver much improved range. It could have a very negative impact on residual values of today's models.

I've driven plenty of EV's and in general I have no complaints about the product, other than actual range performance.

For that reason I won't make the jump with my main car. We will probably swap the Mrs car for one in the next 18 months or so - as residuals srart to fall..
My car does 300 miles on a full charge. The other half diesel does 320 miles on a full tank. It's another fallacy that only EV have to refuel. There are extremely few journeys that I would have to stop where she wouldn't. And once again, 90% of people take these journeys so rarely any perceived inconvenience is massively offset by the convenience of destination feuling and running costs.

If it wasn't so frustrating it would be amusing that people who want to discount EV concentrate solely on journeys that, for the most part, don’t happen. They ignore the journeys that we actually use our cars for
 

Jonny Ingbar

Well-known member
General motors invented it and it really is a fake "issue ". Charger concerns, which is what you describe, currently exist. Range anxiety is a made up construct to slow down EV take up. That's an actual fact
I think it's probably more accurate to say GM seized on the issue, as it's some stretch to suggest it was 'invented'. I think.

I know that charging times are reducing as the tech evolves in both the vehicles and the charging points (which is another reason why I'm less included to go EV), but it's an absolute fact that its harder to charge an EV away from home, than it is to refuel a ICE.

It's a finely balanced choice between EV and ICE and I guess it's resolved by your own personal needs and wants.
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
I think it's probably more accurate to say GM seized on the issue, as it's some stretch to suggest it was 'invented'. I think.

I know that charging times are reducing as the tech evolves in both the vehicles and the charging points (which is another reason why I'm less included to go EV), but it's an absolute fact that its harder to charge an EV away from home, than it is to refuel a ICE.

It's a finely balanced choice between EV and ICE and I guess it's resolved by your own personal needs and wants.
They actually invented the phrase. The first time those 2 words were recorded together was in GM press after their EV1 car failed. It's a pure anti marketing phrase. Not as bad as what Japan are doing but still not good.

I agree it's harder to refuel away from home because there are so many petrol stations
My points are around convenience though. With all service stations having EV chargers and with destination charging on the rise it's simply easier to refuel is it requires no detours. We still have a way to go, but we are getting there. Just need to counteract straight up lies by the ICE industry such as range anxiety so none EV owners realise the refuel issues aren't what they have been told to think they are.
 

SilentProf

Well-known member
Just need to counteract straight up lies by the ICE industry such as range anxiety so none EV owners realise the refuel issues aren't what they have been told to think they are.
I think you need to just start saying ‘range isn’t an issue’. ‘Range anxiety’ is definitely an issue for some people as they state it as a major factor in them not choosing to go EV yet. It’s only a matter of time before we hit the tipping point though, as tech improves and as more people realise they have nothing to feel anxious about.
 

Caesium137

Well-known member
My car does 300 miles on a full charge. The other half diesel does 320 miles on a full tank. It's another fallacy that only EV have to refuel. There are extremely few journeys that I would have to stop where she wouldn't. And once again, 90% of people take these journeys so rarely any perceived inconvenience is massively offset by the convenience of destination feuling and running costs.

If it wasn't so frustrating it would be amusing that people who want to discount EV concentrate solely on journeys that, for the most part, don’t happen. They ignore the journeys that we actually use our cars for
WTF diesel has she got that she only gets 320 miles? My old Golf did 600 if you went steady.

My A4 Avant in town with everything switched on does 450 easily.
 

ChrisTheRed

Well-known member
My car does 300 miles on a full charge. The other half diesel does 320 miles on a full tank. It's another fallacy that only EV have to refuel. There are extremely few journeys that I would have to stop where she wouldn't. And once again, 90% of people take these journeys so rarely any perceived inconvenience is massively offset by the convenience of destination feuling and running costs.

If it wasn't so frustrating it would be amusing that people who want to discount EV concentrate solely on journeys that, for the most part, don’t happen. They ignore the journeys that we actually use our cars for
320m on a tank of diesel? What is she driving? Most people I know with diesels get significantly more that. I even get more than that from my petrol.
 

Redwurzel

Well-known member
My petrol car does 10.9 miles per litre - it has a 45 litre tank - range should be around 490 miles.

Range tends to be not an issue with garages every 15 miles, unless you live in a very remote area.

I quite often do 250 miles without refilling. In a EV I would want the guaranteed same. The long range TESLA can give this but its around £48,000 to buy new - while my car was around £9,000 to buy brand new. I can understand I am not quite a normal driver who many never drive 250 miles in a day.

I read this money that copper is the metal of the future, because an average EV uses 80kg of copper per car compared with 22kg for a petrol car. Thats going to put some pressure on copper production and the Earth.
 
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