Has Kieran Scott added any value at our club?

Otto42 said:
Without looking at the figures Blackburn spent similar to ourselves and achieved much more. The season we finished seventh under McLaren both Everton and Bolton finished above us with I would guess lower budgets. One of the promotions you quote wouldn’t have been necessary without the three points debacle and we were also hurtling towards relegation with Boksic and Karambeau. I think pre Eindhoven some of these shortcomings were covered up by Gibson investing in the club, now we don’t have that luxury as others are wealthier than us.
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So two blokes buy their local football teams and deliver unparalleled success - in terms of those clubs’ histories - and you want to criticise one of them for not winning the league? Despite them doing some absolutely insane stuff. I can’t get along with that TBH.

Won’t somebody think of poor Sir John Hall…

Everton had a bigger budget than us at that time, neither them or Bolton were running a European campaign at that time, when they both finished above us. Boro and Bolton were the outliers really. Allardyce was revolutionary, we had a beautiful balance. It just lined up.

The shortcomings pre-Eindhoven? Three cup finals, two promotions, a new stadium, a raft of global superstars making the Boro look like an episode of Gazzetta Football Italia. I’d take those shortcomings every day of the week.

What do you want the Boro to do now? Sack Wilder? Sack Scott? Sack Bausor? Do you want the chairman to sell up?
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
If it’s ‘nail on head,’ how come every other club that’s spent big money across Gibson’s tenure hasn’t achieved the level of success Middlesbrough did?
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Some have, some haven’t and I’m sure the fans of other underperforming teams have tried to identify the reasons why.

Quite reasonable really.
 
Mwelolo said:
Some have, some haven’t and I’m sure the fans of other underperforming teams have tried to identify the reasons why.

Quite reasonable really.
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Which ones have? We’re taking about the clubs outside of the wealthiest six here presumably. Which other clubs, outside of those six, have a major trophy and three other major cup finals appearances, a UEFA Cup final and a UEFA Cup last 16 appearance, three promotions, their highest Premier League finish… and have an absolute catalogue of household names wear their shirt?

Take Leicester out. You can have them. Blackburn Rovers had a league and a League Cup. Who else?

Wigan, Villa, Everton, Swansea, Newcastle, West Ham? Wolves? Norwich, Sheffield Wednesday, Sunderland, Leeds? Forest? Palace? Birmingham? Southampton? Burnley?

Nah, none of them have done with Gibson’s Boro did. I’m not sure people appreciate just how good we had it TBH. And just because we’re struggling now and have tailed off or levelled off doesn’t mean his last achievements or successes should be talked down or dismissed.
 
“Had it”

Nail on the head.

A distant memory I’m afraid and now no sign whatsoever of success when we can’t achieve success through spending power, when good judgement and management are required.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
Won’t somebody think of poor Sir John Hall…

Everton had a bigger budget than us at that time, neither them or Bolton were running a European campaign at that time, when they both finished above us. Boro and Bolton were the outliers really. Allardyce was revolutionary, we had a beautiful balance. It just lined up.

The shortcomings pre-Eindhoven? Three cup finals, two promotions, a new stadium, a raft of global superstars making the Boro look like an episode of Gazzetta Football Italia. I’d take those shortcomings every day of the week.

What do you want the Boro to do now? Sack Wilder? Sack Scott? Sack Bausor? Do you want the chairman to sell up?
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I want the club to stick with the Scott plan, as you said earlier that shows the Chairman moving with the times and realising that it’s about working smarter. If Wilder can’t work with that he’ll have to go, but I think he can. It’s about riding out the current poor form and giving a model time to work, post Karanka we have had so many resets and got nowhere.

My point about pre and post Eindhoven is that we achieved our success due to Gibson’s financial muscle and now that’s not an option.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
Wigan, Villa, Everton, Swansea, Newcastle, West Ham? Wolves? Norwich, Sheffield Wednesday, Sunderland, Leeds? Forest? Palace? Birmingham? Southampton? Burnley?
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Wigan won the FA Cup in 2013. Swansea and Birmingham have both won the league cup in recent history. Wolves, West Ham and Burnley have have all played European football in recent years.

Lets not pretend we are some sort of unique club outside of the big 6.
 
uncle_rico said:
Wigan won the FA Cup in 2013. Swansea and Birmingham have both won the league cup in recent history. Wolves, West Ham and Burnley have have all played European football in recent years.

Lets not pretend we are some sort of unique club outside of the big 6.
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I’d take our successes and signings over all of those 6 mentioned
 
uncle_rico said:
Wigan won the FA Cup in 2013. Swansea and Birmingham have both won the league cup in recent history. Wolves, West Ham and Burnley have have all played European football in recent years.

Lets not pretend we are some sort of unique club outside of the big 6.
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How many other finals, European finals and runs, Premier League high finishes, top-class internationals from Rav to Ziege to Juninho to Hasselbaink…

How many trophies and finals have West Ham and Burnley got in the past 25-30 years? How many finals have they made?

I acknowledged that those clubs achieved excellent things. But they didn’t or haven’t achieved as much Boro did across Gibson’s tenure. My point is that outside the top six wealthiest clubs, we’ve probably had it better than any clubs bar Leicester and Blackburn in the past 25-30-35 years.

Just because we’re struggling now doesn’t make that untrue.
 
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Alexander Supertramp said:
I’d take our successes and signings over all of those 6 mentioned
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So would I, but that’s not the point being made. Viv is right, we did have it good, we flourished in a time where we could compete financially. Now we can’t so need to be creative and find a way to do it on a shoe string. However, the amount of money we as a club have wasted since 2010 is ridiculous. Absolutley ridiculous. We as fans have been given false hope after false hope with things like “we want to smash the league” and “we want to be challenging at the top of the table”.

When it’s not working, and we are seemingly going backwards, surely as paying “punters” we have a right to question what is going on at the club? That includes Gibson, Wilder, Scott and Bausor.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
How many other finals, European finals and runs, Premier League high finishes, top-class internationals from Rav to Ziege to Juninho to Hasselbaink…

How many trophies and finals have West Ham and Burnley got in the past 25-30 years? How many finals have they made?

I acknowledged that those clubs achieved excellent things. But they didn’t or haven’t achieved as much Boro did across Gibson’s tenure. My point is that outside the top six wealthiest clubs, we’ve probably had it better than any clubs bar Leicester and Blackburn in the past 25-30-35 years.

Just because we’re struggling now make that untrue.
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So Man City, Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs are in a different league. We could never compete
Leeds, Newcastle, Leicester and Blackburn have indeed done more than us. So too have Everton and Aston Villa.
Bolton have had top 6 finishes and more European seasons than us.
Fulham have the same European record as us.

We did well in Cups over a 10 year period, it was great.
But Viv we have 13 seasons out of 14 outside the top flight now.
 
Do people honestly believe Wilder is not picking Hoppe and Forsse to make a point ?

That beggars belief, who would you trust to know the most about football? An experienced manager who has spent his entire adult life in professional football or Keiran Scott who's done errrrrr not to sure to be honest.

I'd trust wilder all day long that if these lads were good enough they would be in the team.
From what I've seen of Forsse he looks a poor signing but I would be more than happy to be proved wrong.
 
No, not at all, if you take the markers of success for a Director of Football to be:

(1) Recruitment
- Take out the loan players. Are any of the players we’ve signed over the last 12 months since Kieron Scott’s been in the job any good? Who are our best players, when did they sign? Is the squad even balanced or does it have gaping weaknesses that are glaringly obvious?

(2) Development
- Our best young prospects, sellable assets are Jones, Fry. These both pre-date Kieron Scott. Spence went for a fortune, we didn’t even use him and allowed him to go on loan to get a rival promoted as one of their best players. The “development” players we’ve brought in, don’t play, therefore don’t develop, therefore do the opposite of ‘add value’ to the club, they’re a waste.

(3) Planning
- And finally the most important one, the most important thing a Director of Football should do: having succession plans in place for when players and managers move on.

One out, another one in in advance, or only sell when you’re ready. Brighton or Southampton, two well run clubs, sell a big player and already have their replacement at the club ready to slot straight in.

For instance, selling your key midfielder with no replacement lined up, and then not even replacing him in the rest of the window. Or bringing in panic buy free transfers because you didn’t land your targets.

It’s not good enough and I know we don’t know the exact structure of how things work, but all these things are explicit responsibilities of a Director of Football.
 
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