Government eco+ scheme for insulation etc

[ThatFragranceGuy]

The guy said that people who own 4 bedroom house aren’t struggling to eat and you replied “of course they do”. Just wondering if you were basing that on your own experience.

Basing it on the fact that no matter what council at band we are in, energy bills have gone from £671.25 a year in 2021 to £3700 a year in 2022, then to £2500 for 6 months then back to £3000 in April 2023 meanwhile inflation is about 10% and our mortgage rate in February is likely to increase our payments by £500 a month. Meanwhile I've had a private sector real terms cost of living pay cut, and my partner who works at an NHS nurse is having to strike to get a fair pay deal as she can't spent claps. It's December in 3 days and we've had the heating on for 6 hours this year.

Yet people in a house worth the same or more than ours will get this government support (on top of the extra £150 council tax payment already) so while you've edited out the part of your post saying "should people living in a 200k+ house get government support or should it be targeted elsewhere?", that is my point exactly because people living in a 200k house will get that support whilst others in a 200k house won't because an arbitrary line is drawn in the sand to say you either get that support or you get no support with improving your household energy efficiency. In fact the house next door to ours, is actually band C, but is larger. Are you saying the cost of living crisis is accurately divided by council tax banding?

My comment wasn't relating to us however, but there will definitely be people living in 4 bed detached houses that are struggling to eat because council tax banding is out of date and very inconsistent. Because you bought a house with 200k to get out of a bad area like we did, doesn't imply in any way that you don't need this support because your disposable income has most likely been wiped out by government decisions, energy bills, inflation, increased mortgage payments and many other things.

 

[sherlock]

Basing it on the fact that no matter what council at band we are in, energy bills have gone from £671.25 a year in 2021 to £3700 a year in 2022, then to £2500 for 6 months then back to £3000 in April 2023 meanwhile inflation is about 10% and our mortgage rate in February is likely to increase our payments by £500 a month. Meanwhile I've had a private sector real terms cost of living pay cut, and my partner who works at an NHS nurse is having to strike to get a fair pay deal as she can't spent claps. It's December in 3 days and we've had the heating on for 6 hours this year.

Yet people in a house worth the same or more than ours will get this government support (on top of the extra £150 council tax payment already) so while you've edited out the part of your post saying "should people living in a 200k+ house get government support or should it be targeted elsewhere?", that is my point exactly because people living in a 200k house will get that support whilst others in a 200k house won't because an arbitrary line is drawn in the sand to say you either get that support or you get no support with improving your household energy efficiency. In fact the house next door to ours, is actually band C, but is larger. Are you saying the cost of living crisis is accurately divided by council tax banding?

My comment wasn't relating to us however, but there will definitely be people living in 4 bed detached houses that are struggling to eat because council tax banding is out of date and very inconsistent. Because you bought a house with 200k to get out of a bad area like we did, doesn't imply in any way that you don't need this support because your disposable income has most likely been wiped out by government decisions, energy bills, inflation, increased mortgage payments and many other things.

Completely agree with every word of this.

 

[Glover_elbow]

Basing it on the fact that no matter what council at band we are in, energy bills have gone from £671.25 a year in 2021 to £3700 a year in 2022, then to £2500 for 6 months then back to £3000 in April 2023 meanwhile inflation is about 10% and our mortgage rate in February is likely to increase our payments by £500 a month. Meanwhile I've had a private sector real terms cost of living pay cut, and my partner who works at an NHS nurse is having to strike to get a fair pay deal as she can't spent claps. It's December in 3 days and we've had the heating on for 6 hours this year.

Yet people in a house worth the same or more than ours will get this government support (on top of the extra £150 council tax payment already) so while you've edited out the part of your post saying "should people living in a 200k+ house get government support or should it be targeted elsewhere?", that is my point exactly because people living in a 200k house will get that support whilst others in a 200k house won't because an arbitrary line is drawn in the sand to say you either get that support or you get no support with improving your household energy efficiency. In fact the house next door to ours, is actually band C, but is larger. Are you saying the cost of living crisis is accurately divided by council tax banding?

My comment wasn't relating to us however, but there will definitely be people living in 4 bed detached houses that are struggling to eat because council tax banding is out of date and very inconsistent. Because you bought a house with 200k to get out of a bad area like we did, doesn't imply in any way that you don't need this support because your disposable income has most likely been wiped out by government decisions, energy bills, inflation, increased mortgage payments and many other things.

many other things being lifestyle choices like sky subscriptions, gym memberships, kitchen gadgets, designer clothes, perfume . Maybe its time to downsize if there's only two living in a 4 bed detached, its all relative, but its certainly not absolute poverty. plenty of people with 4 bed detached houses will have assets to sell before they go hungry for example We have sold over a grand on vinted to put towards kids xmas presents. Most people are feeling the pinch but there are plenty more without detached houses in real poverty.

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

many other things being lifestyle choices like sky subscriptions, gym memberships, kitchen gadgets, designer clothes, perfume . Maybe its time to downsize if there's only two living in a 4 bed detached, its all relative, but its certainly not absolute poverty. plenty of people with 4 bed detached houses will have assets to sell before they go hungry for example We have sold over a grand on vinted to put towards kids xmas presents. Most people are feeling the pinch but there are plenty more without detached houses in real poverty.

We don't subscribe to the gym, we don't have any form of cable tv (no sky, no virgin, just freesat) and we don't have any paid streaming subscriptions like Netflix, only one we have is Amazon prime. We have one 12 year Old Ford focus car between the two of us which we will drive into the ground, we don't buy kitchen gadgets, we don't wear designer clothes. We don't buy each other Christmas presents. Every bill we have is absolutely the smallest it possibly can be and we sit wearing 2 layers of clothes rather than putting the heating on. I run a business selling fragrances, so can't really not buy perfume; but what I do buy I sell.

Not really looking to sell my house and move to a smaller lower priced house because the gas bill has gone up, seems like a fairly wild suggestion given the costs you will incur for legal fees I need space to work in the house and we "upsized" to get into a better area to avoid crime due to what we went through in the old area.

 

[sherlock]

many other things being lifestyle choices like sky subscriptions, gym memberships, kitchen gadgets, designer clothes, perfume . Maybe its time to downsize if there's only two living in a 4 bed detached, its all relative, but its certainly not absolute poverty. plenty of people with 4 bed detached houses will have assets to sell before they go hungry for example We have sold over a grand on vinted to put towards kids xmas presents. Most people are feeling the pinch but there are plenty more without detached houses in real poverty.

What a thoroughly depressing state of affairs. Rather than direct anger at where it should go, have we really got to the point where you are advocating that people should stop every part of life that isn't just existing?

Don't go out, don't go to the gym, don't wear nice clothes, don't do anything that gives you pleasure. If you can afford even one part of this you don't deserve any support at all. Oh, and sell your house because you gas bill has gone up.

It's Tory enabling like this that has got us into the mess we are in.

 

[Glover_elbow]

What a thoroughly depressing state of affairs. Rather than direct anger at where it should go, have we really got to the point where you are advocating that people should stop every part of life that isn't just existing?

Don't go out, don't go to the gym, don't wear nice clothes, don't do anything that gives you pleasure. If you can afford even one part of this you don't deserve any support at all. Oh, and sell your house because you gas bill has gone up.

It's Tory enabling like this that has got us into the mess we are in.

then don't plead poverty from your 4 bed detached when there are literally millions who are far far worse off.

 

[Redwurzel]

Its not about home insulation

But I keep asking for several years and posting it on here for a reform of the council tax system of 1991 - 31 years on we are are stil using the same bands and valuations. Surely it should be reviewed every 10 years. I prefer a system based on the valiue of the property based on National Scales so we all pay say around 0.7% of the property so in London pays £7,000 and on Teesside a £200k owner pays £1400 - Most local government spending is made of central payments and they can adjust payments depending on the money collected in each area of the UK. That way the more prosperous areas of thr UK support the poorer. At present its the other way round. I hope the Labour party support it or something similar but I am not holding my breath.

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

then don't plead poverty from your 4 bed detached when there are literally millions who are far far worse off.

Which was never the point of this thread, what an utter straw man attempt

 

[sherlock]

then don't plead poverty from your 4 bed detached when there are literally millions who are far far worse off.

What an idiotic reply.....well done.

 

[sherlock]

then don't plead poverty from your 4 bed detached when there are literally millions who are far far worse off.

I've just realised this post earlier was from you:

"Our 4 bed detached in IB is in band D i know some of the neighbours are in band E. The only reason i can think ours is D is the 4th bedroom is a box room. When people go through planning to add extensions is re-evaluation of banding not done as a matter of course. We are certainly not in the low income bracket but i will take any freebies available."

So it's ok for you to get the 'freebies' in your 4 bed detached, but not others eh?

You utter moron.

 

[Glover_elbow]

I've just realised this post earlier was from you:

"Our 4 bed detached in IB is in band D i know some of the neighbours are in band E. The only reason i can think ours is D is the 4th bedroom is a box room. When people go through planning to add extensions is re-evaluation of banding not done as a matter of course. We are certainly not in the low income bracket but i will take any freebies available."

So it's ok for you to get the 'freebies' in your 4 bed detached, but not others eh?

You utter moron.

No the rules are wrong for this insulation and so is the banding just sick of people moaning about the cost of living crisis and energy prices when they are still taking foreign holidays and other expensive lifestyle choices.

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

No the rules are wrong for this insulation and so is the banding just sick of people moaning about the cost of living crisis and energy prices when they are still taking foreign holidays and other expensive lifestyle choices.

is that the expensive lifestyle choices that you listed yet I told you we don't actually do any of them?

Yet you're happy to accept any freebies coming your way wether you need then or not - class.

 

[sherlock]

No the rules are wrong for this insulation and so is the banding just sick of people moaning about the cost of living crisis and energy prices when they are still taking foreign holidays and other expensive lifestyle choices.

There is so much wrong with this gaslighting Tory shyte that I really don't even know where to begin....

By the way, if the rules are wrong why would you take advantage of them? Greed I assume?

 

[Redwurzel]

FG - I guess you are a bit upset at present and I am not been critical or anything like that.

Our energy bills have from £72 to £154 per month from early 2020 to now i.e just over double (about 114%), but the figures you are quoting have gone up by over 500% (five times) from 2020 to 2022. Has your home usage gone up?

If you manage to get some cash loft insulation for you could you £525 per year if you can lay your self it will pay for itself in 6 about months. Its about £20 per roll according to Which.

 

[sherlock]

FG - I guess you are a bit upset at present and I am not been critical or anything like that.

Our energy bills have from £72 to £154 per month from early 2020 to now i.e just over double (about 114%), but the figures you are quoting have gone up by over 500% (five times) from 2020 to 2022. Has your home usage gone up?

If you manage to get some cash loft insulation for you could you £525 per year if you can lay your self it will pay for itself in 6 about months. Its about £20 per roll according to Which.

£154 a month, if that's your actual usage, is massively below average use. That is not achievable just through loft insulation.

Why does he need to be upset to make perfectly valid points and object to people talking utter nonsense?

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

FG - I guess you are a bit upset at present and I am not been critical or anything like that.

Our energy bills have from £72 to £154 per month from early 2020 to now i.e just over double (about 114%), but the figures you are quoting have gone up by over 500% (five times) from 2020 to 2022. Has your home usage gone up?

If you manage to get some cash loft insulation for you could you £525 per year if you can lay your self it will pay for itself in 6 about months. It's about £20 per roll according to Which.

Thanks - spent last week up in my loft replacing the bathroom and en suite extractor ducting with insulated ducting venting to a roof tile as previously it was connected in a total cowboy style and venting to the eves unventilated. and it was an awful job. Our loft is not boarded out, so getting to all of the parts of the loft is a very difficult job which is not helped by our boiler being in the loft and therefore having expoosed pipe work and condensate to be mindful of. There is also led slot lights in each room which is good for energy saving but I am concerned that the manuals for these lights suggest fire safe hoods above them to allow for ventilation, this is also rot less of a risk because of led but still says needed - they're a fair cost each and means laying those down before any insulation. We are going to just have to suck it up and pay it somehow though. I have a bad back and a bad knee and just doing the ventilation was an awful job so not looking forward to it, and from doing the ducting I know you need proper breathing mask as was a ton of fibreglass in the air just from cutting the venting

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

£154 a month, if that's your actual usage, is massively below average use. That is not achievable just through loft insulation.

Why does he ned to be upset to make perfectly valid points and object to people talking utter nonsense?

154*12 is £1848 so quite far below the epg cap, but that could be current spend before winter heating is factored in?

I think our last 3 months bills have averaged at £122 but that is with the £66 reduction, so should be £188. But that is with almost no heating at all and just hot water etc and we are at about the limit now of not being able to put it on. Our boiler being in the loft probably doesn't help matters as means kitchen tap is far from the heating point as is living room rad. But it's hard to save money on what you aren't spending it on in the first place.

We'll be ok - the key thing is here I am not pleading poverty, I'm pointing out that it's a poorly designed system and everyone's income is squeezed and using council tax is a really stupid way to say you can afford it or not.

There are limits to how much stuff you can cut out of your life to keep on paying for this stuff.

 

[sherlock]

154*12 is £1848 so quite far below the epg cap, but that could be current spend before winter heating is factored in?

I think our last 3 months bills have averaged at £122 but that is with the £66 reduction, so should be £188. But that is with almost no heating at all and just hot water etc and we are at about the limit now of not being able to put it on. Our boiler being in the loft probably doesn't help matters as means kitchen tap is far from the heating point as is living room rad. But it's hard to save money on what you aren't spending it on in the first place.

We'll be ok - the key thing is here I am not pleading poverty, I'm pointing out that it's a poorly designed system and everyone's income is squeezed and using council tax is a really stupid way to say you can afford it or not.

There are limits to how much stuff you can cut out of your life to keep on paying for this stuff.

And there's a limit to how much stuff you should have to cut out of your life to keep paying for this stuff.

These Tory enabling fools who advocate that people should stop doing everything that constitutes living rather than existing, so that the rich can keep getting richer, are a massive part of the problem.

Then you have people like Glover who wants to get the help in his 4 bed detached, but doesn't think anyone else should get the help in their 4 bed detached....despicable isn't a strong enough word for them.

 

[Redwurzel]

Is the Cap based on average usage of £2,500?

FD's £188 per month is £2,256 per year - his first estimate of £3,500 was too high. I accept he and his partner are not happy with lack of heat at times.

We have managed to get usage down by using LED lighting, relatively new boiler, valves on all radiators, 150 mm loft insulation, not all people are doing this, The £154 per month has just gone up from £114 per month. Bills might be a little higher in the North East too, because its a bit colder.

Ref boiler in the loft - proably depends what system it is. If you are using a copper cylinder for storage or a combi boiler.

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

Is the Cap based on average usage of £2,500?

FD's £188 per month is £2,256 per year - his first estimate of £3,500 was too high. I accept he and his partner are not happy with lack of heat at times.

We have managed to get usage down by using LED lighting, relatively new boiler, valves on all radiators, 150 mm loft insulation, not all people are doing this, The £154 per month has just gone up from £114 per month. Bills might be a little higher in the North East too, because its a bit colder.

Ref boiler in the loft - proably depends what system it is. If you are using a copper cylinder for storage or a combi boiler.

My first estimate wasn't too high, it's based on historical data. Average usage is based on 2500 however almost no one is at that level unless in a very small house or hardly using the heating - Martin Lewis has been quite vocal about this as the danger is people assume the cap means that is what they will pay, which isn't the case.

We were paying just over £600 a year in Feb 2021 when our deal expired, we took a 12 month fix prior to EPG being announced - the Cornwall insights were forecasting based on our 2021 usage that we would pay £3933 so we took a fix at £3340 for 12 months. The EPG was then announced which capped at £2500 but based on reel world usage we would be paying £2896, this cap will increase to £3000 in April, with no £400 cushion to reduce it.

Our £188 a month average for last 3 months is based on a very mild autumn so far and almost everything being not only religiously turned off but automatically turned off, power scheduled within an inch of its life and controlled remotely. No light is not LED, no device is left on accidentally as 1am everything is powered off by remote. We already have TRV's, smart thermostat, but there are no savings here because TRV's do nothing when then house temperature is already 13c and the heating is off.

Given that at current EPG rates it's approx £1/hour to have the heating on, you must be using either no electricity or be using the heating very little also? 2 hours heating a day hitting £70+ before hot water and standing charge leaves you £2 a day for electricity and given that SC is just shy of 50p for elec that's not a lot. Even having two shallow baths a day between us (less than an average shower use) and standard hot water our gas usage is about £2 minimum a day with no heat used. There was a poster the other day hitting £10.

Our heating isn't on now but that will end in December. Our direct debit is £280 a month to average out over the 12 months, but that will probably need to increase due to the April rise and the lack of £400 support so while the EPG only
Goes up £500 (i day only despite that being >90% of our 2021 bill), it's really a £900 increase because of the £400 support this year.

Every £ we can save possibly we have done so - not because we need to put bread on the table
But because we know what is coming - extra £500/ month on mortgage come feb, extra energy payments come April and real terms pay cut for us both due to inflation, and food prices and other bills continuing to rise in line with inflation and council tax nailed on 5% rise thanks to the government.

The idea that we should sell our house to pay for that is nonse sense, pun intended.