Give Gareth 4 more years

The Card Cheat said:
There is some but it's definitely the minority. This board is not a microcosm of the rest of the internet.
On social media, comment sections of online papers etc it's absolutely endemic, and it is hate and I completely agree it's often motivated by rabid right wing bias.
Also a lot of people who genuinely believe we should play 7 forwards.🤔
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I agree it's less here than the internet and life in general, but this is a slightly more moderate and intellectual board...usually
 
Can't we just have a football discussion without dragging politics and culture wars into it?

Just because some fans don't rate Southgate or his tactics it doesn't mean they are brainwashed by the right wing media.

It's getting absolutely tiresome reading it on every football thread. If you think Southgate is doing a great or terrible job it shouldn't matter, we are entitled to see things differently and it doesn't mean we have an underlying agenda.

It feels like some people just want to drive away every poster that doesn't have the same views as them. Insinuating that people are racist or ignorant just because they have a different football opinion is done to discredit and silence people and it's going to drive away some decent people away from the board.

I've had it levelled at me a few times now and I can see it happening with other people. It actually couldn't be further from the truth and it's ruining any chance of proper debate.
 
Uwefuchs said:
Can't we just have a football discussion without dragging politics and culture wars into it?

Just because some fans don't rate Southgate or his tactics it doesn't mean they are brainwashed by the right wing media.

It's getting absolutely tiresome reading it on every football thread. If you think Southgate is doing a great or terrible job it shouldn't matter, we are entitled to see things differently and it doesn't mean we have an underlying agenda.

It feels like some people just want to drive away every poster that doesn't have the same views as them. Insinuating that people are racist or ignorant just because they have a different football opinion is done to discredit and silence people and it's going to drive away some decent people away from the board.

I've had it levelled at me a few times now and I can see it happening with other people. It actually couldn't be further from the truth and it's ruining any chance of proper debate.
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I don’t think the argument is “everyone who doesn’t rate Southgate is a RWNJ” though. Nor is it “Southgate should be immune to criticism”, I’m an absolute fanboy and I’ve criticised him several times on here.

But, if you look at social media/message boards/comments sections there is unquestionably tonnes and tonnes of people who absolutely detest Gareth and include in their often vile personal attacks phrases like “knee bender/woke/liberal.” I don’t think there is any question that many have an agenda against him.

That doesn’t mean you can’t think he’s a bad manager and be a moderate sensible human being though.
 
Uwefuchs said:
Can't we just have a football discussion without dragging politics and culture wars into it?

Just because some fans don't rate Southgate or his tactics it doesn't mean they are brainwashed by the right wing media.
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We often do, but if we are discussing Southgate, we have to accept that the culture war exists, and he has like Lineker, Vorderman, and Hugh Grant been a victim of it.

Yes, some fans have legitimate questions about his tactics, and the odd result. But the vitriol levied at him generally does not reflect the brilliant results he has had. So yes, I'll postulate that him defending taking the knee, was a pivotal moment, prior to that it was all Southgates waistcoat chic and how he had turned things around. After that he was generally abused.

Uwefuchs said:
It's getting absolutely tiresome reading it on every football thread.
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It isn't on every football thread, in fact, it's rarely mentioned on a football thread.

Uwefuchs said:
If you think Southgate is doing a great or terrible job it shouldn't matter, we are entitled to see things differently and it doesn't mean we have an underlying agenda.
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On an individual basis, no, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen, and a huge number of people abuse him purely for this.

Uwefuchs said:
It feels like some people just want to drive away every poster that doesn't have the same views as them. Insinuating that people are racist or ignorant just because they have a different football opinion is done to discredit and silence people and it's going to drive away some decent people away from the board.
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Nobody has driven anyone away, or insinuated racism, what are you talking about man?

Uwefuchs said:
I've had it levelled at me a few times now and I can see it happening with other people. It actually couldn't be further from the truth and it's ruining any chance of proper debate.
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A PROPER debate, means that you have to address all aspects, not just the ones that you agree with. I've provided evidence above of high profile media people who have called southgate out as woke, I can send some clips of England fans booing taking the knee if you have forgotten that was a thing. I can send you videos of southgate defending the racism towards Sancho, Rashford and Saka after the Italy game, if that has slipped your mind. A proper debate means being honest, and discussing uncomfortable subjects like the swathes of people that are racists, xenophobic, hate left or centrist politics, hate intelligent people and intellectualism. That isn't to say everyone that dislikes southgate falls into this category, but it is a thing, and an important part of the narrative.

I think a lot of well meaning people totally underplay the stress, scrutiny, and political position that being England manager has in society. It's a key high profile leadership role, comes with certain off pitch responsibilities that culturally extend far beyond football. for me, it is a thankless job, nobody gets out alive, and if you put your had above the parapet for what you believe in, they come for you.

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The Card Cheat said:
I don’t think the argument is “everyone who doesn’t rate Southgate is a RWNJ” though. Nor is it “Southgate should be immune to criticism”, I’m an absolute fanboy and I’ve criticised him several times on here.

But, if you look at social media/message boards/comments sections there is unquestionably tonnes and tonnes of people who absolutely detest Gareth and include in their often vile personal attacks phrases like “knee bender/woke/liberal.” I don’t think there is any question that many have an agenda against him.

That doesn’t mean you can’t think he’s a bad manager and be a moderate sensible human being though.
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If someone is using the culture war stuff on here to attack Southgate then fair enough but it's usually a football debate where those defending his tactics use the culture war stuff to discredit the poster.

We know who it is and it's the same people that are on every thread arguing to the death and just beating people into submission.

Half the time I think it's just become a sport to win an argument on here.
 
I do think it's ridiculous how some folk bring politics into a football debate although we should have prison ships ,My distant relative stole a umbrella and was on a prison ship for 18 months on the river Thames before being deported to tasmania it was raining when he stole it he was 14 at Westgate hill
 
Carrick's said:
I do think it's ridiculous how some folk bring politics into a football debate
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I completely agree but that is the awful world that we live in. At least there are good people who are willing to defend the footballing side on places such as this and try to force out the politics despite being labelled as 'woke' for doing so.,
 
Have to give credit where it’s due.

I’ve criticised him in the recent past. Justifiably I think. But tonight - the right team, the right formation, and the right substitutions.

Deserved winners.
 
Deserved win tonight, but I'd still be sticking to the "only if we win it" and even then I wouldn't blame him whatsoever for leaving on a massive high.

Southgate seemed on the brink of tears in the post-match, it's been so tough for him.
 
Uwefuchs said:
Can't we just have a football discussion without dragging politics and culture wars into it?

Just because some fans don't rate Southgate or his tactics it doesn't mean they are brainwashed by the right wing media.

It's getting absolutely tiresome reading it on every football thread. If you think Southgate is doing a great or terrible job it shouldn't matter, we are entitled to see things differently and it doesn't mean we have an underlying agenda.

It feels like some people just want to drive away every poster that doesn't have the same views as them. Insinuating that people are racist or ignorant just because they have a different football opinion is done to discredit and silence people and it's going to drive away some decent people away from the board.

I've had it levelled at me a few times now and I can see it happening with other people. It actually couldn't be further from the truth and it's ruining any chance of proper debate.
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Yes, you're right.
 
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