Gareth Southgate's strong message after some supporters booed when England players take the knee [Gazette]

BoroMart said:
I was going to post exactly the same, I mean obvs I'm just a tad anti-royal. Personally I believe the national anthem is an elitist political trope that indoctrinates people into believing that the monarchy deserve our undying patronage, unfettered power and unimaginable wealth at our expense.......but I've never booed it, I just let others get on with singing it.
Click to expand...
God Save the Queen, which was played as well as Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau, used to be booed at Welsh rugby matches (except when they were playing England). It was eventually dropped in 1975.
 
SuperStu said:
I disagree. Is this how you feel about the UK now because there's no groups out there being prejudiced/discriminatory against certain eye colours?

If racism just stopped existing nothing of value would have been lost and nobody would miss it.
Click to expand...

A lot of things get referred to as racism , I’m probably too thick to explain myself properly. We also have cultural differences that we don’t all like but gets deemed as racism .
 
Colin Warnek said:
Several reasons - the symbolism doesn't sit right with me at all. Firstly it originated as an anti-patriotic gesture during the US anthem. Whether that was justified in the US or not is not up for debate - the knee symbolises US anti-patriotic sentiment which there is no need to replicate in the UK. It makes me feel uncomfortable to copy that here.
Click to expand...
If that is what you believe, then hopefully you'll be honest enough to re-assess and rethink that. It was predated by 50 years and part of the 60s movement against an apartheid system. Even Kapernek, didn't do it "anti-patriotic", that's a lazy answer, it was a reaction to continued racism, he felt that america had barely moved forward in 50 years and minorities still struggle. Go to the states when it opens up, go drive around one of the projects and get a real sense of the poverty and despair, then come back and talk about what you see, I'd love you to explain why that kind of desperation should exist in teh worlds richest country and why it's 95%+ black and hispanic.
1622719505682.png

Colin Warnek said:
Secondly is a more nuanced point - the gesture actually apes the action of Derek Chauvin himself. I think as a gesture it couldn't be in worse taste.
Click to expand...
How did MLK know that Chauvin would do that 50 years later?

Colin Warnek said:
Third - the politics and aims of BLM are certainly questionable and don't warrant my unwavering support.
Click to expand...
I've given the BLM about page, happy to discuss the exact points that you feel are questionable, because I can't see anything. It's become the stock answer, but has no depth or evidence to support it.
 
HiredGun123 said:
What about who do genuinely oppose it for those reasons? Granted there may be some in the stadium hiding behind it just because they may be bigoted.

What about black people among my friends and family that opposite it? Are they racist? Or just ignorant? Or not allowed to form their own opinion?

Are we talking about booing specifically is racist? Or just not supporting a foundation that has some big question marks over it? also if you don’t agree with BLM as an organisation, why not express your belief? It should work both ways surely. Or are you only allowed to be loud if you follow one school of thought?

It always seems funny to me that the “anti-fascists” are the ones that seem to think everyone has to follow a narrative without questioning it, And expressing a different view makes them a bigot and should be silent. They don’t know the meaning of antifascist. I’m not applying that to you, I’m just talking in general.

We’ve had anti-racism movements in football before like kick racism out of football and whatnot... and it never received such negativity or boo’s.

So I do think there is a better way to show willingness to tackle or highlight injustice without taking a knee, a symbolic gesture with strong connections to an organisation with some major question marks.

The problem is it’s almost impossible to even have the right conversations because we live in a world where people are massively intolerant of each other, on all sides. Now in the eyes of the ignorant majority you’re either a “liberal lefty loony” or a “racist trump supporter” with nothing in-between. To be honest, I think your post somewhat highlights that.
Click to expand...
What a lot of old cobblers.

This is a very very simple issue. It's about racial equality, even if you don't think it is surely you can hear the mood music and disharmony that the booing creates.

Nice shoe-horning if your 'black friends' into the post by the way.
 
zorro_mfc said:
That is how the hard right media spun Kaepernick action then trump revved that mantra up but as above you’ve missed the point.
Click to expand...
exactly. Kapernick is a good honorable man, a man who was prepared to dump his career for his convictions and empathy for those less fortune than him. I'd go for a beer and have a far more interesting chat with him than Trump which would probably be the dullest event in my life because he has nothing but spite, selfishness and ignorance in his locker.
 
Colgates_shaving_foam said:
What a lot of old cobblers.

This is a very very simple issue. It's about racial equality, even if you don't think it is surely you can hear the mood music and disharmony that the booing creates.

Nice shoe-horning if your 'black friends' into the post by the way.
Click to expand...

nice one assuming my race and background, you ignored the family part of my post? Idiot. Pure ignorance.

also, I personally wouldn’t boo, like I said in a previous post.

I just don’t think specifically taking a knee is the best way to go about it, As explained in my post.
 
Middlesbrough123 said:
A lot of things get referred to as racism , I’m probably too thick to explain myself properly. We also have cultural differences that we don’t all like but gets deemed as racism .
Click to expand...
It's pretty easy mate, do no harm to others, if you live your life like that you won't go wrong, educated or not. These booers are actively trying to do harm to by undermining the ethnic minorities that have had decades of prejudice in this country.
 
HiredGun123 said:
So I do think there is a better way to show willingness to tackle or highlight injustice without taking a knee, a symbolic gesture with strong connections to an organisation with some major question marks.
Click to expand...
That's your position, but there are 100s of thousands that think it is a good way, it resonates with them, including england players last night, and who are you or any of the booers to tell them any different?
 
Adi_Dem said:
Look, if you're hiding behind it being political, unpatriotic, a Marxist gesture or whatever other nonsense you're choosing to come up with then you're either racist, ignorant or both. Simple.
Click to expand...
Does that make Britt Assombalonga and Lyle Taylor racist? Or in your eyes is it only white people who disagree with taking the knee?
 
BoroMart said:
It's pretty easy mate, do no harm to others, if you live your life like that you won't go wrong, educated or not. These booers are actively trying to do harm to by undermining the ethnic minorities that have had decades of prejudice in this country.
Click to expand...

or some don’t like the shady organisation spearheading a movement that’s being shoved down their throats every day.

are some people bigots? Yes. Do some people find racism abhorrent but still don’t support the organisation spearheading certain things? Yes.

Not everyone thinks alike. Only the ignorant see things in black and white, no pun intended.
 
HiredGun123 said:
I personally wouldn’t boo, like I said in a previous post.

I just don’t think specifically taking a knee is the best way to go about it, As explained in my post.
Click to expand...
I agree with you but like you I respect the actions of those taking the knee and wouldn't boo. I started applauding to drown out the boos.

uncle_rico said:
Does that make Britt Assombalonga and Lyle Taylor racist? Or in your eyes is it only white people?
Click to expand...
You really are making yourself into the racist apologist on here. Is it deliberate?
 
LaPennaBianca said:
Never heard of liberation theology?

King probably wasn't a Marxist, but as instated before, he had a critical opinion if capitalism and wasn't anti-communist in any sense.

A quote from his autobiography:

"I was deeply concerned from my early teen days about the gulf between superfluous wealth and abject poverty, and my reading of Marx made me ever more conscious of this gulf. Although modern American capitalism had greatly reduced the gap through social reforms, there was still need for a better distribution of wealth. Moreover, Marx had revealed the danger of the profit motive as the sole basis of an economic system: capitalism is always in danger of inspiring men to be more concerned about making a living than making a life. We are prone to judge success by the index of our salaries or the size of our automobiles, rather than by the quality of our service and relationship to humanity - thus capitalism can lead to a practical materialism that is as pernicious as the materialism taught by communism.”

“In short, I read Marx as I read all of the influential historical thinkers - from a dialectical point of view, combining a partial ‘yes’ and a partial ‘no.’ In so far as Marx posited a metaphysical materialism, an ethical relativism, and a strangulating totalitarianism, I responded with an unambiguous ‘no’; but in so far as he pointed to weaknesses of traditional capitalism, contributed to the growth of a definite self-consciousness in the masses, and challenged the social conscience of the Christian churches, I responded with a definite ‘yes.’ “
Click to expand...
Good post LaPen

I'm gonna have to read Marx properly, obviously understand the high-level concepts but would like to educate myself more on the hows and whys of his journey to those ideologies.

My personal stance is pragmatism, Yes out and out communism would be awful, but people need to start to address that out and out capitalism is too. Too many people think it's the status quo and we are wealthier than other nations. But actually we have a lot of poverty, a lot of social failure, are culturally ignorant, are wealth and possession addicts. There has to be a better pragmatic system than we have today and to be honest with automation advances it'll be needed sooner not later. Capitalism is a busted flush.
 
Muttley said:
I agree with you but like you I respect the actions of those taking the knee and wouldn't boo. I started applauding to drown out the boos.


You really are making yourself into the racist apologist on here. Is it deliberate?
Click to expand...
And this is the problem. Anyone who has a different opinion is immediately branded a racist.
 
HiredGun123 said:
or some don’t like the shady organisation spearheading a movement that’s being shoved down their throats every day.

are some people bigots? Yes. Do some people find racism abhorrent but still don’t support the organisation spearheading certain things? Yes.

Not everyone thinks alike. Only the ignorant see things in black and white, no pun intended.
Click to expand...
But it's been explained many many many times that the players taking the knee has nothing to do with BLM as an organisation.
 
BoroMart said:
That's your position, but there are 100s of thousands that think it is a good way, it resonates with them, including england players last night, and who are you or any of the booers to tell them any different?
Click to expand...
I’m not, it’s my personal opinion that I don’t like the way it’s done. I’m not telling anybody what they should or shouldn’t do.

Would I boo? No, not my style and personally I wouldn’t direct my opposition to it towards footballers... but let me put that back to
You.. who are you to tell others they shouldn’t voice their opinion too by booing?

People are only allowed to legally express themselves when it’s something you agree with?

If a bunch of people make a gesture in front of an audience of paying customers who may not agree with it, Then the audience has the right to react however they choose, In a legal capacity, of course.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top