Flintoff’s £9 million payout

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Having your face dragged along the road at 22mph, with the weight of a car on top of you, I can’t imagine is particularly pleasant. He’s literally had to have his face rebuilt.

Several Crew on the scene have been off work with PTSD and the significant ambulance delay didn’t help matters.

Those roll bars wont do anything for a big bloke like him.

Also the insurance payout won’t be funded by the licence fee.

Not sure why you are trying to attribute the blame somehow on Flintoff here? His employers 100% to blame and they had an earlier near miss with Flintoff in another ridiculous contraption which should have been a wake up call.

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“He’s literally had to have his face rebuilt”.

I bet he’s gutted, had his face rebuilt and when they took the bandages off he looks like err……….Andrew Flintoff!!
 
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Laughing at the people on here defending the payout. Mostly the same mob that would be up in arms if a benefit claimant got an extra few quid undeservedly 🤣
 
If he asked for a helmet , and wasn't given one , then the onus is on him to decline to do it , do all the risk assessments you like , but the bottom line is its down to you , nobody can force you to do something .
Not true. Under HASWA:

Employer is responsible for providing a safe procedure, training, PPE and all the equipment to comply with the safe procedure

Employee is responsible for following the safe procedure, using tools/equipment appropriately and wearing supplied PPE.

Yes any individual can refuse to do something they deem unsafe but not right to say the onus is on him. The onus is always on the employer to provide a safe place of work.
 
“He’s literally had to have his face rebuilt”.

I bet he’s gutted, had his face rebuilt and when they took the bandages off he looks like err……….Andrew Flintoff!!
The pay out was high because is loss of earnings are high. The bloke has had a terrible time, don't get the issue.
 
Not true. Under HASWA:

Employer is responsible for providing a safe procedure, training, PPE and all the equipment to comply with the safe procedure

Employee is responsible for following the safe procedure, using tools/equipment appropriately and wearing supplied PPE.

Yes any individual can refuse to do something they deem unsafe but not right to say the onus is on him. The onus is always on the employer to provide a safe place of work.

Is the right answer. And if Flintoff was told to wear a helmet, but declined, then the senior manager on site responsible for H&S (usually the director) would halt proceedings. Calls would then be made to the BBC's safety advisors back at base as well as the senior producers/executives. They would then answer that the filming cannot go ahead, unless the full PPE is worn.
 
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It's not even that complex to be honest.
It was a reference to "why are license fee payers paying for this" "why didn't he wear a helmet" "the onus was on him to refuse to do it" etc etc. Borolad259 even gave some H&S context that was (programme type) specific, and it was ignored 😀 All these rugged individualistic types who manage their own risk perfectly and never give a thought to the tragedies and work underpinning our H&S every day. Best one on here has got to be the statement that he shouldn't be driving if he's gonna crash at low speed. Commonest accident is to crash into a parked car within a mile of home, so I suppose none of should be driving in that case. I had an argument with our gatepost once, never again, it won 😜
 
I love Freddie and I think taking inflated money for a risky job is 100% fine, and I've done it myself many a time, but when the risk occurs I don't think it's right to try and claim the full damages as a replacement. It's sort of like an ex-marine going to work in close protection for some dodgy bloke in the gulf. Sure 150k a year is nice for a grunt, but it's risky, and there's a chance you'll get hurt and never live another day.

The role at top gear was probably one of the most lucrative roles he could ever do, claiming a loss of earnings for that role is a bit much, when you could only get it in that role (with assumed increased risk). The increased risk is sort of necessary for the cameras/ job role, and they wouldn't get the viewers if every single thing they did was with helmets on.

If he asked for a helmet then sure, they should maybe have given him one (or come up with another safe way), and sure they may have to pay out for not giving it, but not the full amount. He's a big enough boy and with enough of a stature to say he's not doing it without a helmet, if he thought there was enough of a risk there. On some occasions staff can ask for PPE when risk dictates it's not necessary though (this may or may not have been the case here), and one event where a small risk materialises won't prove that either way.

Then there's also what caused the incident, it was seemingly a 22mph crash in a sort of kit car, and it's not common to wear a helmet in one of those (albeit on road), and that is legal by UK law, on motorways etc. Sure, on a track you may opt for one but most still don't as they're not really more risk than say driving down a country lane, sure speeds are quicker, but there's far less around which can kill you.

22mph is not fast, not at all for a car with a roll cage, the risk there of the damage he suffered was probably a 1 in a 10,000 hour event, and Risk Assessments won't cater for that, and nor should they for that risk assessment for that role. I do double that speed on my road bike (cycle), which is perfectly legal and that's around cars and buses etc, and about 20mph is average speed, with very little protection.

Heck, you can even get ran over at 20mph and it be fairly safe (apparently). We apparently deem that as the safe speed limit near schools etc.

If you're willing to take on good money for risky jobs, you shouldn't kick off too much if that risk materialises, as that's why you're getting the money. If the risk wasn't there, the viewers wouldn't be and the money wouldn't be either.

The settlement is coming from the taxpayer, one way or another whether that's from funding BBC, or through paying high insurance premiums via BBC. This plus the £5m or whatever it cost to axe/ pause the rest of the series.
 
Spot on Andy.

Let's look at the arguments put forward on this thread.

'He asked for a helmet', 'it wasn't risk assessed', 'the BBC didn't provide him with the correct PPE' etc.

Then saying that this means he should get full career loss of earnings (let's ignore the fact for now he can still work and would never get anything like £9 million from any other job).


Now let's compare that with health professionals that worked throughout the pandemic. Without proper risk assessment or PPE. Many lost their lives, many others have long covid and can probably never work again. More still have PTSD far worse than those being mentioned on this thread that saw someone flip a car at 22 mph.

What do we get from the same kind of people defending Flintoff's ridiculous payout?

'It's a vocation', 'they knew the risk' etc and those people got no kind of compensation whatsoever, in fact they have been discarded and forgotten by many of the same people who banged pots and pans on a Thursday evening.

The hypocrisy stinks, as does trying to make out that saying Flintoff has to take some responsibility is the same as saying a woman in a short skirt should take responsibility for being raped.
 
I love Freddie and I think taking inflated money for a risky job is 100% fine, and I've done it myself many a time, but when the risk occurs I don't think it's right to try and claim the full damages as a replacement. It's sort of like an ex-marine going to work in close protection for some dodgy bloke in the gulf. Sure 150k a year is nice for a grunt, but it's risky, and there's a chance you'll get hurt and never live another day.

The role at top gear was probably one of the most lucrative roles he could ever do, claiming a loss of earnings for that role is a bit much, when you could only get it in that role (with assumed increased risk). The increased risk is sort of necessary for the cameras/ job role, and they wouldn't get the viewers if every single thing they did was with helmets on.

If he asked for a helmet then sure, they should maybe have given him one (or come up with another safe way), and sure they may have to pay out for not giving it, but not the full amount. He's a big enough boy and with enough of a stature to say he's not doing it without a helmet, if he thought there was enough of a risk there. On some occasions staff can ask for PPE when risk dictates it's not necessary though (this may or may not have been the case here), and one event where a small risk materialises won't prove that either way.

Then there's also what caused the incident, it was seemingly a 22mph crash in a sort of kit car, and it's not common to wear a helmet in one of those (albeit on road), and that is legal by UK law, on motorways etc. Sure, on a track you may opt for one but most still don't as they're not really more risk than say driving down a country lane, sure speeds are quicker, but there's far less around which can kill you.

22mph is not fast, not at all for a car with a roll cage, the risk there of the damage he suffered was probably a 1 in a 10,000 hour event, and Risk Assessments won't cater for that, and nor should they for that risk assessment for that role. I do double that speed on my road bike (cycle), which is perfectly legal and that's around cars and buses etc, and about 20mph is average speed, with very little protection.

Heck, you can even get ran over at 20mph and it be fairly safe (apparently). We apparently deem that as the safe speed limit near schools etc.

If you're willing to take on good money for risky jobs, you shouldn't kick off too much if that risk materialises, as that's why you're getting the money. If the risk wasn't there, the viewers wouldn't be and the money wouldn't be either.

The settlement is coming from the taxpayer, one way or another whether that's from funding BBC, or through paying high insurance premiums via BBC. This plus the £5m or whatever it cost to axe/ pause the rest of the series.

I disagree with most of what you have said there, but much is about opinion ... so I'm not going to argue. But I'll correct you factually. BBC Studios is not owned or funded by the tax payer. It is a commercial company, in the same way that BBC Worldwide was/is. BBC Studios have to pitch to the BBC (the publicly owned broadcaster) for commissions. This includes having to pitch for the right to produce long standing TV shows.... like Countryfile (competition from independents was fierce for that one, but BBC Studios won the contract, slashing the programme's budget in the process) and Songs odf Praise (which is now made by a rival indie). The fact that Flintoff received the payout, out of court, should tell you that, from a legal standpoint, BBC Studios knew that they would lose and would most likely have to pay Flintoff's costs. As a commercial operation, I can tell you that they do not spend or give away money for no reason. They are tight as hell.
 
Spot on Andy.

Let's look at the arguments put forward on this thread.

'He asked for a helmet', 'it wasn't risk assessed', 'the BBC didn't provide him with the correct PPE' etc.

Then saying that this means he should get full career loss of earnings (let's ignore the fact for now he can still work and would never get anything like £9 million from any other job).


Now let's compare that with health professionals that worked throughout the pandemic. Without proper risk assessment or PPE. Many lost their lives, many others have long covid and can probably never work again. More still have PTSD far worse than those being mentioned on this thread that saw someone flip a car at 22 mph.

What do we get from the same kind of people defending Flintoff's ridiculous payout?

'It's a vocation', 'they knew the risk' etc and those people got no kind of compensation whatsoever, in fact they have been discarded and forgotten by many of the same people who banged pots and pans on a Thursday evening.

The hypocrisy stinks, as does trying to make out that saying Flintoff has to take some responsibility is the same as saying a woman in a short skirt should take responsibility for being raped.

Don't even start to suggest that I would take that attitude towards health workers who suffered/died during the pandemic. You are way off beam. And I'm not so much defending the payout. I am simply explaining to you why it has been made. You know, as someone who knows, has worked on Top Gear, been in charge of safety on Top Gear shoots and completed more BBC Risk Assessments than you can begin to imagine.
 
Don't even start to suggest that I would take that attitude towards health workers who suffered/died during the pandemic. You are way off beam. And I'm not so much defending the payout. I am simply explaining to you why it has been made. You know, as someone who knows, has worked on Top Gear, been in charge of safety on Top Gear shoots and completed more BBC Risk Assessments than you can begin to imagine.
I wasn't talking about you.
 
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