First Rwanda flight leaving today

WeeGord said:
Surely you're misrepresenting things here? I don't think people are denigrating the UK they are denigrating the vile governance within the UK. There is a huge and significant difference.
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That's a fair point WeeGord, but they have become conflated in this post. I don't want the vast majority (and it is) that are not racist to be overlooked.
 
SmallTown said:
It's hideous isn't it? Rather than acting like elected representtives of the people they just blow dog whistles to excite the bigoted likes of @Pembroke and @The Ruthsayer . Tragic that they pander to the bigots and more tragic that it works
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I defend you that vast majority of the time on here ST, but going calling people bigots just isn't right. I may disagree with the views of some posters but most express things in a reasonable and respectful way, even if I vehemently disagree with their positions.
 
WeeGord said:
I defend you that vast majority of the time on here ST, but going calling people bigots just isn't right. I may disagree with the views of some posters but most express things in a reasonable and respectful way, even if I vehemently disagree with their positions.
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Even if their views are frequently bigoted? I'm sorry but this Rwanda flight has made my sickened of what our country has become. it is, inherently, A policy designed to appeal to bigots and racists. When I see people defending or deflecting from it like those two I can only draw one conclusion. Every decent human being should be against this. this is an opinion I'm unlikely to change. So to see them try and deflect from it is disgusting in my eyes
 
The Ruthsayer said:
That's a fair point WeeGord, but they have become conflated in this post. I don't want the vast majority (and it is) that are not racist to be overlooked.
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I don't think they've become conflated at all. As I'm sure most anti-Tory posters would agree, the UK is a fantastic place on almost every level spoiled by a corrupt, right wing government taking us swiftly towards a very, very dark place.
 
SmallTown said:
Even if their views are frequently bigoted?
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I understand your frustration ST and indeed I share it. That's why I have often defended you especially from those who purposely try to goad you.

However, despite all of our frustrations it is sometimes better to respond to any perceived bigotry in a way that raises the bar if decency rather than descend towards it.
 
SmallTown said:
It's hideous isn't it? Rather than acting like elected representtives of the people they just blow dog whistles to excite the bigoted likes of @Pembroke and @The Ruthsayer . Tragic that they pander to the bigots and more tragic that it works
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I object to being labelled bigoted. I was being showered with urine by the National Front for joining a march with Asians before you were born (or so I would guess given the immaturity of your posts, sorry, but they are unnecessarily aggressive). I have since challenged racism and misogynism wherever I have encountered it. I am very comfortable with my approach to life. I am also happy to enter into rational arguments without resorting to insults, nor do I consider those who hold considered alternative views bigots.
 
WeeGord said:
I understand your frustration ST and indeed I share it. That's why I have often defended you especially from those who purposely try to goad you.

However, despite all of our frustrations it is sometimes better to respond to any perceived bigotry in a way that raises the bar if decency rather than descend towards it.
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I do not, nor would I, try to goad any poster. I hope I always remain respectful. For the record (as per my earlier post), this proposal to deport migrants to Rwanda is an obscenity. I have never, nor shall I ever, vote Tory.
 
WeeGord said:
I understand your frustration ST and indeed I share it. That's why I have often defended you especially from those who purposely try to goad you.

However, despite all of our frustrations it is sometimes better to respond to any perceived bigotry in a way that raises the bar if decency rather than descend towards it.
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OK, that's fair enough. I'll take that on board. I'll try to temper the anger I feel at this. I jsut say the "oh the EU is worse" stuff and think they are deflecting and trynig to condone the actions.

Apologies @The Ruthsayer I let my anger at this get the better of me
 
The Ruthsayer said:
I do not, nor would I, try to goad any poster. I hope I always remain respectful. For the record (as per my earlier post), this proposal to deport migrants to Rwanda is an obscenity. I have never, nor shall I ever, vote Tory.
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The goading I was talking about wasn't directed at you, sorry if that wasn't clear.

ST, despite somes being too blunt and too direct at times IMHO, often makes very good very valid points. However there are a number of posters on here who attack him at every opportunity and goad him to get a reaction.

ST is no saint by the way and is capable of sticking up for himself, but I don't like to see it when some posters continually attack him rather than address the points he raises.
 
The Ruthsayer said:
Possibly Boromart, but I think we still are. And also all the more reason for us to celebrate the successes of integration whenever we can to silence the racists. Clearly some on here (NYBoro) don't agree with this approach, but I still believe creating and continuing a positive message is important.
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I'd agree but I see nothing positive whatsoever about the Rwanda flights. It is fascism in action.
 
The Ruthsayer said:
Why? I am trying to add some balance here. Many posters here continually denigrate the UK, without considering the positive points. I've spent a fair bit of time in NYC and I found the division between races a great deal more stark than here. Generalisation I know, but true.
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Another nation with a hard right minority has problems with racism, there's a shock. Try popping down to Texas, it's even more stark in the sticks down there.

To play down racism here is juvenile at best, sinister possibly. Our silent minority are now louder than ever.
 
SmallTown said:
OK, that's fair enough. I'll take that on board. I'll try to temper the anger I feel at this. I jsut say the "oh the EU is worse" stuff and think they are deflecting and trynig to condone the actions.

Apologies @The Ruthsayer I let my anger at this get the better of me
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Thank you SmallTown, that is appreciated. Despite what you may feel we probably agree on many subjects.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
Another nation with a hard right minority has problems with racism, there's a shock. Try popping down to Texas, it's even more stark in the sticks down there.

To play down racism here is juvenile at best, sinister possibly. Our silent minority are now louder than ever
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Promoting the positive does not equate to 'play[ing] down racism', does it? I certainly don't think so. I don't underestimate the genuine threat from the far-right, whether that is the UK, US, France, Germany or any other democracy.
 
There’s a couple of things mentioned in the press yesterday and this morning.
Johnson supposedly telling ministers to dial down a bit on the protocol.
Also it would be difficult for the UK to leave the ECHR…because the court is tied somehow into the Belfast Agreement.
 
Ziggy said:
There’s a couple of things mentioned in the press yesterday and this morning.
Johnson supposedly telling ministers to dial down a bit on the protocol.
Also it would be difficult for the UK to leave the ECHR…because the court is tied somehow into the Belfast Agreement.
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I could be wrong on this, but I think GFA only ties NI to the ECHR, not GB. So Gov can water down rights in GB a bit more easily.
 
Way_Out_West said:
I could be wrong on this, but I think GFA only ties NI to the ECHR, not GB. So Gov can water down rights in GB a bit more easily.
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This in itself shouldn't be something that is an actual conversation shouldn't it? We have ministers of the crown, and people agreeing with them, that we should have less human rights then we had.

Insanity.
 
The Ruthsayer said:
Why? I am trying to add some balance here. Many posters here continually denigrate the UK, without considering the positive points. I've spent a fair bit of time in NYC and I found the division between races a great deal more stark than here. Generalisation I know, but true.
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So because there’s some good points about Britain, we shouldn’t undermine them by calling out the hideous parts of the system..🤦🏼‍♂️
 
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