England very poor so far

That performance from England was like watching us in our relegation season under Southgate.
We slept walk to relegation.
England lacking drive, direction, desire and aggression, all attributes enhanced and brought out in individuals by man management. We have the skill , technical abilty and in play tactical awareness to beat Scotland , ... but we couldnt because we were held back by our managers personaliity.
Let me quantify that by saying i deeply respect Gareth as a person , as a player and agree with his philosophy s for life as far as ive been able to read.
But as a leader of men and raising those men up to be the best they can be ( which is what is required to win a major tournament ) he , is too philosophical.
Hes a Socrates when we need a Leonidas.
 
It was their final, the celebrations and comments afterwards said it all, you’d have thought they had won but in reality it leaves them needing to win against Croatia to qualify which is not going to be easy given they lack a goal scorer.

as for England, time to take the shackles off otherwise we will be out as soon as we play anyone half decent. Today’s game was like a rerun of the Iceland game or pretty much any boro game for the last few seasons, sideways and backwards with a team looking like they’ve just met each other for the first time.
 
The annoying thing is the very few times we tried to be more direct, we looked like we could get behind the defence, but opted to slowly knock the ball about for most of the match instead.
 
I knew this place was toxic and to be avoided after a Boro defeat but didn't realise that now extends to an England draw!

There are clearly a lot of posters with an anti Southgate agenda, as was discussed on the frankly bizarre post slating Southgate's team selection against Croatia before the team was even named!

On that post @The Card Cheat made a number of really good points about why Southgate isn't a negative coach, the link below is just one of the posts from that thread that highlighted this point.

fmttmboro.com

Southgate about to pick the wrong side - again

you couldnt make this up. ingerlaand fans slagging the manager and certain players off before a ball has been kicked, before a team has been selected from a squad. amazing. theres nowt like 'support'. "ingerlaand" - I love that me. Up there with "citeh" for comic genius.
fmttmboro.com fmttmboro.com

By all means constructive criticism of an individual performance in a game or tactics/team selection, but to completely rewrite the narrative to suggest that Southgate is a negative manager who always plays for a draw is hyperbolic nonsense.

For what it's worth I think the tempo was more to blame last night than personnel there just seemed to be no intensity or zip about the passing and movement. I agree with the posters that Kane just doesn't look right which is a worry for me moving forward. I'm not sure Rashford is an out and out striker and Calvert Lewin has a few question marks against him at this level.
 
Block21 said:
Reece James must of passed the ball backwards to John Stones 872 times.

Rice and Phillips didn’t work today, it was a game for Bellingham that, a bit of composure on the ball and he could of tried to find the likes of Mount and Foden inbetween the lines and Grealish when he was on. Kane was poor and something doesn’t look right.

Mings done well, apart from that not much you can say apart from well done Scotland and I wish John McGinn was English.
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According to the BBC, Reece James touched the ball 93 times, his completion rate was 98.8%. Wonder how much of that percentage went forward. Not having a go at him personally, don't usually bother with stats either, but that was our problem all over the pitch tonight.
 
One thing I did pick up on was our reluctance to 'switch it' last night. There were times when both Grealish and Foden had the ball out wide and had 2 or 3 Scottish players closing them down. They tried to play their way out but you'd have Shaw or James out on the other side, in acres of space. One ball across and we'd have had an opening but it was all too condensed at times last night I felt.

I used to say it all the time when we had Traore. If the opposition are closing one player down in 2's or 3's then it's going to free up space for other players. You have to be smart about it and look to find those players who are free in space.
 
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theredrooster said:
I knew this place was toxic and to be avoided after a Boro defeat but didn't realise that now extends to an England draw!

There are clearly a lot of posters with an anti Southgate agenda, as was discussed on the frankly bizarre post slating Southgate's team selection against Croatia before the team was even named!

On that post @The Card Cheat made a number of really good points about why Southgate isn't a negative coach, the link below is just one of the posts from that thread that highlighted this point.

fmttmboro.com

Southgate about to pick the wrong side - again

you couldnt make this up. ingerlaand fans slagging the manager and certain players off before a ball has been kicked, before a team has been selected from a squad. amazing. theres nowt like 'support'. "ingerlaand" - I love that me. Up there with "citeh" for comic genius.
fmttmboro.com fmttmboro.com

By all means constructive criticism of an individual performance in a game or tactics/team selection, but to completely rewrite the narrative to suggest that Southgate is a negative manager who always plays for a draw is hyperbolic nonsense.

For what it's worth I think the tempo was more to blame last night than personnel there just seemed to be no intensity or zip about the passing and movement. I agree with the posters that Kane just doesn't look right which is a worry for me moving forward. I'm not sure Rashford is an out and out striker and Calvert Lewin has a few question marks against him at this level.
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To be fair, he defended playing for a draw afterwards......
 
red_harrington said:
What a boring game

No midfield presence, way too many backwards/sideways passes, flat, dull and uninspiring

Did the Scottish keeper even have to make a save? Just the one I think, in 90 mins against a rubbish Scotland side (n)
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How patronising is that? Scotland didn't play that well, could and should have scored and should have won.

Just face up to it - England aren't very good
 
Soutra said:
How patronising is that? Scotland didn't play that well, could and should have scored and should have won.

Just face up to it - England aren't very good
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With what? O'Donnell's shot? That effort Che Adams sent into the stratosphere?
If we're going down this road, England should have been two up within 15 minutes from the Stones and Mount opportunities.
 
I wrote this afew weeks ago in the Woodgate thread and still stand by it:-

…
Let’s never forget he nearly relegated a safely mid-table (at the very least) squad and it’s the same with Southgate, through his time here you could see he was tactically very inept. It’s not improved at all but he’s got very lucky with the current crop of England players and all it’s youthful superstars. Genuinely possibly our best ever squad but you wonder if a world class manager would have us winning tournaments and world cups whereas you just always know with Gareth in charge that will never happen as there will always be a much better manager than him come up against him if and when it matters and he’ll just make an absolute balls up of it trying to start a semi-final ultra defensive or the other team go down to 10 and England still lose etc etc etc

Setting up so defensively against facking Scotland and serving up that borefest when the whole nation is so pumped up and watching at 8pm on a Friday evening. Just far to cautious to ever succeed in International football and exactly as stated above I still just can’t help but think a decent manager breaks them down early and wins that 4-0 with goals from all over the pitch.
 
MFP said:
Maybe the plan is to end up on the other side of the draw and Southgate is a tactical mastermind. 🤣
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I've actually seriously considered this.🤔



Everything points to it really. Go all out of the traps at the start against Croatia and take them by surprise. Get in front, then hold onto that lead to get the all-important 3 points on the board that goes more than halfway to achieving qualification already.

EXECUTED.



Next up Scotland. Now we don't want to lose as that would leave the horrible possibility of coming 4th actually still possible, as well as reduce morale. But do we $hite want to beat the jocks as then all the Czechs then have to do to finish second is not win against us. Pick a defensive af lineup (as Scotland have shown that for all their abilities in midfield and bottle their target men are the weak link) with dull tactics and if anyone shows even a glimpse of sparkle and possibility of scoring/setting up a goal, make them the first to get hooked. Tell your captain and usual main goalscorer to play like a complete pudding as well; all will be forgiven if he gets back on board in later games anyway.

EXECUTED TO PERFECTION.



And now we have the Czech Republic. All going well, all we now need to do is grab a draw to guarantee second. If you thought we were defensive against Scotland...🤣

Job done, avoid playing most likely any of the last 3 WC/Euro winners in the next round as "reward" for topping the group; instead face a side who were awesome 10 years ago (but none of those players play for them any more and they're as defensive as you are) or more likely another of 3 sides who are bang average.👍


Gareth has been accused many times of being a "thinker" and a strategy like this one is exactly the kind I would expect a thoughtful analyst to set out....😎
 
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Ipad1977 said:
I've actually seriously considered this.🤔



Everything points to it really. Go all out of the traps at the start against Croatia and take them by surprise. Get in front, then hold onto that lead to get the all-important 3 points on the board that goes more than halfway to achieving qualification already.

EXECUTED.



Next up Scotland. Now we don't want to lose as that would leave the horrible possibility of coming 4th actually still possible, as well as reduce morale. But do we $hite want to beat the jocks as then all the Czechs then have to do to finish second is not win against us. Pick a defensive af lineup (as Scotland have shown that for all their abilities in midfield and bottle their target men are the weak link) with dull tactics and if anyone shows even a glimpse of sparkle and possibility of scoring/setting up a goal, make them the first to get hooked. Tell your captain and usual main goalscorer to play like a complete pudding as well; all will be forgiven if he gets back on board in later games anyway.

EXECUTED TO PERFECTION.



And now we have the Czech Republic. All going well, all we now need to do is grab a draw to guarantee second. If you thought we were defensive against Scotland...🤣

Job done, avoid playing most likely any of the last 3 WC/Euro winners in the next round as "reward" for topping the group; instead face a side who were awesome 10 years ago (but none of those players play for them any more and they're as defensive as you are) or more likely another of 3 sides who are bang average.👍


Gareth has been accused many times of being a "thinker" and a strategy like this one is exactly the kind I would expect a thoughtful analyst to set out....😎
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Czech Republic to win 3-0. Croatia or Scotland win and 3rd place borderline.
 
theredrooster said:
I knew this place was toxic and to be avoided after a Boro defeat but didn't realise that now extends to an England draw!

There are clearly a lot of posters with an anti Southgate agenda, as was discussed on the frankly bizarre post slating Southgate's team selection against Croatia before the team was even named!

On that post @The Card Cheat made a number of really good points about why Southgate isn't a negative coach, the link below is just one of the posts from that thread that highlighted this point.

fmttmboro.com

Southgate about to pick the wrong side - again

you couldnt make this up. ingerlaand fans slagging the manager and certain players off before a ball has been kicked, before a team has been selected from a squad. amazing. theres nowt like 'support'. "ingerlaand" - I love that me. Up there with "citeh" for comic genius.
fmttmboro.com fmttmboro.com

By all means constructive criticism of an individual performance in a game or tactics/team selection, but to completely rewrite the narrative to suggest that Southgate is a negative manager who always plays for a draw is hyperbolic nonsense.

For what it's worth I think the tempo was more to blame last night than personnel there just seemed to be no intensity or zip about the passing and movement. I agree with the posters that Kane just doesn't look right which is a worry for me moving forward. I'm not sure Rashford is an out and out striker and Calvert Lewin has a few question marks against him at this level.
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As NY Boro has said Southgate said he was glad of the draw, as for being a negative manager, perhaps negative isn't the word, but he is definitely one who values possession and a patient build up over mixing it up a bit and playing the opposition rather than his set tactics. In our relegation season we scored 28 goals in 38 games, often with Tuncay the only player linking midfield and attack and Southgate loved the holding midfielder to such an extent that often Josh Walker and Matty Bates started ahead of more progressive options. The tactics Gareth employs may be effective against teams that are better than us, but against Scotland he needed ro have a bolder set up. Instead he has heaped pressure back on the squad after an encouraging opener.
 
We were totally negative against Scotland just be honest. 2 holding midfielders and full backs that were conservative in how often they got forward. Not only that we played with very little tempo.

That is negative.

As for toxic, I've seem hardly any posts that I'd call toxic, its football and its supposed to be emotional FFS. We don't all need to be stoic and level headed, why can we have room for passionate posts as well
 
I am sure if I recorded comments from people at a match and then broadcast them two weeks later you would be embarrassed at what was said with the benfit of hindsight. Posting during a match is similar. its in the passion of the game. Don't see any use in dragging up old posts just so some body can say na-na-ne na na.

Fans comment. Fans talk some rubbish and get it wrong a lot of the time. Big deal.
 
Abel Tasman said:
I am sure if I recorded comments from people at a match and then broadcast them two weeks later you would be embarrassed at what was said with the benfit of hindsight. Posting during a match is similar. its in the passion of the game. Don't see any use in dragging up old posts just so some body can say na-na-ne na na.

Fans comment. Fans talk some rubbish and get it wrong a lot of the time. Big deal.
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I think getting it wrong is an understatement...it's was pure vitriol against Gareth and the boys..
 
Abel Tasman said:
I am sure if I recorded comments from people at a match and then broadcast them two weeks later you would be embarrassed at what was said with the benfit of hindsight. Posting during a match is similar. its in the passion of the game. Don't see any use in dragging up old posts just so some body can say na-na-ne na na.

Fans comment. Fans talk some rubbish and get it wrong a lot of the time. Big deal.
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Weren't you the guy who said Rice and Phillips couldn't play together ?
What did you say about talking rubbish and getting it wrong 😆
 
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