Energy Prices

r00fie1

Well-known member
Basic utilities like power, water, national grid, shouldnt be a lottery and left to the rigged "market".
Just like a roof over our head - we all need one.
"Take back control" - "Get the Job Done" an Nationalise them - "Thats what the British people want"(y)
 

1finny

Well-known member
Sorry mate but you said on here around the time of 5p cut that prices might not drop because retailers had already purchased their fuel and they paid for that delivery and the associated cost. Once it’s in the forecourt why does the price need to go up surely the filling station has paid whatever they need to pay for that fuel and the wholesale price change shouldn’t have any impact on fuel already purchased. I suppose they could be softening the blow and bringing in incremental price rises so that there isn’t a big hit when the wholesale price increase hits the next delivery???

I get why you’re being protective of the industry because it sounds like I’m lumping all petrol retailers together but I can only go on my experience of the filling station near me and maybe I’m missing the something.
A few things
At the time - retailers had petrol in their tanks so wouldn’t pass on the 5p.
Also the very next day price went up 5p so it looked like it never went up.

In terms of delivery. We all get deliveries on different days and at different frequencies.
Some get daily if high volume.
If site A gets a delivery today and prices as per that cost price others around follow. That’s market forces and happens when prices go up and when they go down.

The ‘wholesale’ price is the price to the supplier BP et al. They then make their margin by selling it on to the likes of us Sainsburys etc.

For the 5 years pre 2020 I averaged 4.5p per litre margin.
Now it’s 3.5p and my volumes are down v 2019.
In the meantime labour cost is up significantly.
I’m making far less cash.

The suppliers and the government are making significantly more cash.

So, yes I get hacked off when people use lazy sound bites first used by Gove.
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
I think you mean least expensive.
I don't, as it isn't.

It's a common misconception that it's free energy, but the building of the nuclear plants, running them and then decommissioning of them is far from free, especially doing it in a responsible manner. It is steady/ guaranteed and would enable us to be self sufficient though, and a lot of the "cost" goes back into the system (like I said).
 

Pak_Doo_Ik

Well-known member
Thanks Finny, this is my final point I promise. If my local ‘quiet filling station’ gets a delivery twice a week, one on a Monday and one on a Thursday, then in theory there should be no reason for them to put their prices up on a Tuesday or Wednesday other than as you say because the filling station nearby has put their prices up (which may be because they had a delivery and had fuel delivered at a higher cost)?

I completely understand why they do it and when margins are so tight why would you not stick an extra penny per litre on the price if the petrol station up the road has, I might not agree with it but it is business.

Again I am not saying all retailers are doing it far from it and really do not want to distract from the amount of duty and tax the government take to inflate the price, however as a principled person I see what my local filling station is doing as wrong (did similar during the 5hit show that was the media led fuel shortage last year) and as such will not use them.

I don’t think I’m ever going to convince you that this is taking place as you are also a man of principal and as you work in the industry you know far more about it than I do and as you have pointed out all this disagreeing does is allow the government to be let off the hook, which is the last thing I want to do!!!
 

uncle_rico

Well-known member
I hate the way that the energy companies (and others) try to make you feel like you are getting a good deal when your monthly payment goes from £80 to over £200!!
 

Huddboro

Well-known member
I live in a 3 bed terrace atm and I've spent £250 on electric all year, I can't understand why bills are so high elsewhere. Gas useage will go up over the winter but again at the moment it's a minimum amount every month. I don't think my yearly bill will exceed £850.
 

Colgates_shaving_foam

Well-known member
I live in a 3 bed terrace atm and I've spent £250 on electric all year, I can't understand why bills are so high elsewhere. Gas useage will go up over the winter but again at the moment it's a minimum amount every month. I don't think my yearly bill will exceed £850.
Daft question I know but are you sure you're not still on a fixed tariff from before the prices went up massively?
 

sherlock1969

Well-known member
I live in a 3 bed terrace atm and I've spent £250 on electric all year, I can't understand why bills are so high elsewhere. Gas useage will go up over the winter but again at the moment it's a minimum amount every month. I don't think my yearly bill will exceed £850.
Your standing charges will be the best part of £300 for the year, hard to believe you’re only going to spend fifty quid a month on the actual energy use 🤔
 

1finny

Well-known member
Thanks Finny, this is my final point I promise. If my local ‘quiet filling station’ gets a delivery twice a week, one on a Monday and one on a Thursday, then in theory there should be no reason for them to put their prices up on a Tuesday or Wednesday other than as you say because the filling station nearby has put their prices up (which may be because they had a delivery and had fuel delivered at a higher cost)?

I completely understand why they do it and when margins are so tight why would you not stick an extra penny per litre on the price if the petrol station up the road has, I might not agree with it but it is business.

Again I am not saying all retailers are doing it far from it and really do not want to distract from the amount of duty and tax the government take to inflate the price, however as a principled person I see what my local filling station is doing as wrong (did similar during the 5hit show that was the media led fuel shortage last year) and as such will not use them.

I don’t think I’m ever going to convince you that this is taking place as you are also a man of principal and as you work in the industry you know far more about it than I do and as you have pointed out all this disagreeing does is allow the government to be let off the hook, which is the last thing I want to do!!!

Just to remember prices go the other way too (well used to anyway).
You could have a delivery and pay X.
The station down the road gets their delivery next day and pays x -1p.
They drop their prices immediately usually - this is a volume game.
You follow them so take a hit. The next time it may play in your favour.
We work on the theory it averages out.

It’s pretty hard to try and make excess profits because of the fractured nature of supply. Could be 4/5 choices in the area and they all compete.
Price elasticity usually means if you try and increase your retails against the competition you will lose volume and make less cash.

The only way it can work is collusion - unlikely in my experience.
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
Thanks Finny, this is my final point I promise. If my local ‘quiet filling station’ gets a delivery twice a week, one on a Monday and one on a Thursday, then in theory there should be no reason for them to put their prices up on a Tuesday or Wednesday other than as you say because the filling station nearby has put their prices up (which may be because they had a delivery and had fuel delivered at a higher cost)?

I completely understand why they do it and when margins are so tight why would you not stick an extra penny per litre on the price if the petrol station up the road has, I might not agree with it but it is business.

Again I am not saying all retailers are doing it far from it and really do not want to distract from the amount of duty and tax the government take to inflate the price, however as a principled person I see what my local filling station is doing as wrong (did similar during the 5hit show that was the media led fuel shortage last year) and as such will not use them.

I don’t think I’m ever going to convince you that this is taking place as you are also a man of principal and as you work in the industry you know far more about it than I do and as you have pointed out all this disagreeing does is allow the government to be let off the hook, which is the last thing I want to do!!!
You don't know when they pay for their deliveries, when they're billed or when the price is set etc. It's likely they just bill in line with a current price, or price relative to the local area. Or they get invoiced a week later and the invoiced price is based on what the price it is then, so they have to cover themselves.

They can't sell too cheap as may end up running out, if considerably less than the local area, and the shop ends up losing out etc. Some people are daft enough to drive 5 miles to "save" 2p a litre, only to waste a litre of fuel to get there an back, as well as wasting half an hour of their time.

Have to remember that these local places which don't get much turnover are often independent/ family businesses, so they find it hard enough to compete with the big boys anyway, maybe cut them a bit more slack as loads of them are going out of business.
 
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thewanderer

Active member
I don't, as it isn't.

It's a common misconception that it's free energy, but the building of the nuclear plants, running them and then decommissioning of them is far from free, especially doing it in a responsible manner. It is steady/ guaranteed and would enable us to be self sufficient though, and a lot of the "cost" goes back into the system (like I said).
I know it's not free, you said it was the most expensive. Which it isn't.
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
I know it's not free, you said it was the most expensive. Which it isn't.
It's more expensive to produce than Gas, Oil, Solar, Wind etc, if it's more expensive to produce, then it's going to end up as more on peoples bills.

 

thewanderer

Active member
It's more expensive to produce than Gas, Oil, Solar, Wind etc, if it's more expensive to produce, then it's going to end up as more on peoples bills.

Hinckley point is expensive, mainly because the UK gov likes to regulate everything to within an inch of its life.

However France sells us its nuclear power for about 45eur per MWh. Germany has just shut down plants that were generating for less than 30eur per MWh 😵
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
Hinckley point is expensive, mainly because the UK gov likes to regulate everything to within an inch of its life.

However France sells us its nuclear power for about 45eur per MWh. Germany has just shut down plants that were generating for less than 30eur per MWh 😵
We're not in France or Germany though, and they're less likely to be exporting more to us, when the cost of their cheaper energy has gone up. We're also paying them based on rates for older/ less complex/ cheaper reactors, if they built them now (like we would have to), the rates would go up. Obviously France and Germany won't be up for building reactors there, so they can make up the deficit of what we have if we lose gas. It's more likely we will find ourselves cut off from the ~5% they supply.

We pay the price for the government that people chose to vote for unfortunately.

We also end up with excess regulation and increased costs, as people whinge about crap they shouldn't be whinging about, i.e people prioritising their views from their £1m country house, over people being able to afford to live etc. We also don't think forward, on hardly any construction project, and due to delays we cause ourselves when we do finally build things they're way out of date. It's like HS2, we will end up with a 200 mph train, in 2030, yet France did that in 1980, and since 2007 that line's been capable of over 350mph. Japan is opening a line which will have the capability to be twice as fast as HS2.
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
Solar fitted today, I've used £0.00 energy in the last 4 hours. All new houses should be built with solar and ground/air source heat pumps. apart from the obvious green impact, it'll drive demand for other energy sources down, and combat the growing costs for everyone that doesn't have solar.
 

Glover_elbow

Well-known member
Its the
Solar fitted today, I've used £0.00 energy in the last 4 hours. All new houses should be built with solar and ground/air source heat pumps. apart from the obvious green impact, it'll drive demand for other energy sources down, and combat the growing costs for everyone that doesn't have solar.
Absolutely the biggest waste is heat through poor insulation. There should be more legislation to make homes greener.
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
Its the

Absolutely the biggest waste is heat through poor insulation. There should be more legislation to make homes greener.
that would mean making legislation that undermines the build them quick and low quality of the house building companies, and the tories won't do that while they are receiving money of some of the bigger ones
 

BiggEggo

Well-known member
Energy cap is not there to protect the consumer. Its a mechanism by which suppliers are able to limit their liability/false promises.
 

Vzzzbx

Active member
I live in a 3 bed terrace atm and I've spent £250 on electric all year, I can't understand why bills are so high elsewhere. Gas useage will go up over the winter but again at the moment it's a minimum amount every month. I don't think my yearly bill will exceed £850.
When you moved into your house was there an unexplained wire running from your house to a nearby lamppost? 😝
 
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