End Racism......

m3t4tr0n said:
A great deal of these issues are manufactured or at the very least manipulated by the populists to begin with. Small fears or minor concerns are played upon and amplified in order to create the enemy on whom they are told they should blame all the problems on and then lo and behold they step forward with 'solutions' to the problem they manufactured or enhanced to begin with. There's a big wedge of a line between legitimate concerns and those fears that have been manipulated. I would argue with a more balanced and fair media a good chunk of these 'legitimate concerns' wouldn't exist to begin with.

That's not to say people shouldn't have concerns and don't have legitimate concerns, there are areas of the country and sections of population that have been left behind and ignored for way too long, but, spoiler alert, they have little to nothing nothing to.do.wih the number of brown people in your town.
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Argh you beat me to it with a very similar post.
 
FabioPorkpie said:
I’m petrified about the world my kids are going to grow up in. War, famine, climate breakdown. All these things used to seem a long way off for developed countries, but recent times have undoubtedly accelerated our descent into the abyss.
It’s completely soul destroying.
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We’ve all grown up through times of war, famine and natural disasters.

Trump will cause long term harm to America.. but that element has always been there simmering away.

I’m amazed how they are allowing Musk to get away with just taking over.

America is insane right now.
 
How are you going to resist the urge to call people out for their stupidity when people like Trump either lie to get your vote or they tell you what they are going to do and you don't research it and then find that it'll negatively affect you?
There's loads of stuff online about Trump voters now regretting their vote because they didn't think his policies would affect them. People thinking that the richest man in the world having free reign over government finances and not expecting cuts to stuff they rely on is stupidity personified.
While I broadly agree that personally calling people stupid doesn't help, it's hard to not do it when confronted by it.
 
dooderooni said:
How are you going to resist the urge to call people out for their stupidity when people like Trump either lie to get your vote or they tell you what they are going to do and you don't research it and then find that it'll negatively affect you?
There's loads of stuff online about Trump voters now regretting their vote because they didn't think his policies would affect them. People thinking that the richest man in the world having free reign over government finances and not expecting cuts to stuff they rely on is stupidity personified.
While I broadly agree that personally calling people stupid doesn't help, it's hard to not do it when confronted by it.
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The bit about Musk. I find it staggering that normal Americans seem happy with that situation. His involvement shows democracy for the fallacy it is. He funded Trump and now gets to lay waste to parts of American institutions. He is not doing that for the good of all.
 
dooderooni said:
How are you going to resist the urge to call people out for their stupidity when people like Trump either lie to get your vote or they tell you what they are going to do and you don't research it and then find that it'll negatively affect you?
There's loads of stuff online about Trump voters now regretting their vote because they didn't think his policies would affect them. People thinking that the richest man in the world having free reign over government finances and not expecting cuts to stuff they rely on is stupidity personified.
While I broadly agree that personally calling people stupid doesn't help, it's hard to not do it when confronted by it.
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I’m not sure this is directly relevant to the OP though. But the idea that writing “end racism” on a football pitch is going to get people to change their mind is naive (even if it makes us feel better).

Those people don’t claim to be racist and think it’s just wokism being shoved down their throats. We can turn our nose up at them, but then we’ll never connect with them and they’ll keep voting for morons.
 
atypical_boro said:
I’m not sure this is directly relevant to the OP though. But the idea that writing “end racism” on a football pitch is going to get people to change their mind is naive (even if it makes us feel better).

Those people don’t claim to be racist and think it’s just wokism being shoved down their throats. We can turn our nose up at them, but then we’ll never connect with them and they’ll keep voting for morons.
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It's not about getting people to change their minds because they see some words on a pitch. It's a statement of what you stand for.
 
The NFL will never care about racism. As I’m sure Colin Kaepernick would confirm. Obviously the President in attendance tonight is a racist (and rapist) so makes sense to get rid of it.
 
speckyget said:
You'd have to ask the NFL. I suppose the idea is that if people like football, and football says racism is bad, then people will associate that message with something they regard as a positive.
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Ok and obviously there is no harm in the message, it is well intentioned. But equally I don’t think it should be seen as some kind of catastrophe if the words aren’t there anymore.

“End racism” isn’t written on any other sports pitches, we don’t all have it tattooed on our foreheads or scrawled across our car bonnets. Ultimately, it’s pretty futile even if the idea is that it is making a “stand”. I think for too long we have assumed that this kind of thing is what will help end racism, but it really isn’t.
 
atypical_boro said:
Ok and obviously there is no harm in the message, it is well intentioned. But equally I don’t think it should be seen as some kind of catastrophe if the words aren’t there anymore.

“End racism” isn’t written on any other sports pitches, we don’t all have it tattooed on our foreheads or scrawled across our car bonnets. Ultimately, it’s pretty futile even if the idea is that it is making a “stand”. I think for too long we have assumed that this kind of thing is what will help end racism, but it really isn’t.
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Clearly it isn't, or it would have ended by now. But it's how you go about getting bad things to be considered socially unacceptable, and like any social change it takes a long time. And the Americans have just taken a backward step.
 
speckyget said:
Clearly it isn't, or it would have ended by now. But it's how you go about getting bad things to be considered socially unacceptable, and like any social change it takes a long time. And the Americans have just taken a backward step.
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Well I respect your opinion. I just think the world needs to move on from thinking that hashtags (and the likes of this) that make people feel good will make a blind of difference to anything.

What MAY help is talking to racists about why they’re disillusioned, rather than just assuming they’re *all* terrible people.
 
FabioPorkpie said:
I’m petrified about the world my kids are going to grow up in. War, famine, climate breakdown. All these things used to seem a long way off for developed countries, but recent times have undoubtedly accelerated our descent into the abyss.
It’s completely soul destroying.
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Funny that my mate said the same in the 1990s and I'm sure many people have said it before, and since
 
festa5 said:
It's really difficult for non-right wing parties to find the balance. If Labour tell people they're overly concerned, here are all the benefits of immigration, here's the evidence. People don't want to know and feel they're not being listened to.

Whereas Farage and co. feed on it, tell them not only are they right but it's actually much worse than they thought. And that is a much easier message to sell. Human nature is to want to be validated and be told you're right.
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I think Robert A. Heinlein summed this up rather neatly in the following quote:

“You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”
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atypical_boro said:
Well I respect your opinion. I just think the world needs to move on from thinking that hashtags (and the likes of this) that make people feel good will make a blind of difference to anything.

What MAY help is talking to racists about why they’re disillusioned, rather than just assuming they’re *all* terrible people.
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You should ask the corporate world why it spends billions on putting snappy phrases and logos in front of the public's eyes. Propaganda works.

As to your second point, I think the trope about racists being somehow the white dispossessed is rather overplayed. Bad seeds take root everywhere.
 
speckyget said:
You should ask the corporate world why it spends billions on putting snappy phrases and logos in front of the public's eyes. Propaganda works.

As to your second point, I think the trope about racists being somehow the white dispossessed is rather overplayed. Bad seeds take root everywhere.
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Yes I didn’t mean in the absolute sense. Some of them are bad people who are lost causes, but if you can convince the ones who aren’t, that might be enough to stop the likes of Trump.

Propaganda works when the goal is to make money. Hence why so many corporations are now investing millions in ED&I and the like as if they care. If they cared in the first place they wouldn’t have had to do it.
 
atypical_boro said:
Propaganda works when the goal is to make money.
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Not sure that’s solely the use for propaganda. The Nazis were quite proficient and their's wasn't exclusively a money making enterprise. End of the day though, getting rid of racism isn't a case of just doing one thing. Slogans and hastags don't stop you also trying to engage in other ways.
 
festa5 said:
So now you have labour pretending that being outside the EU is great (for example) even though they know it isn't. Because they don't know how to win the argument against populism. But at the same time they're ******* a lot of other voters off (who are now feeling that they're not being listened to).
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That's ridiculous. They know exactly how to win the argument they just don't want to upset the people they'd have to upset in order to do so.

Having Labour politicians funded by the same corporates and rich donors as the Tories is the biggest problem with UK politics.
 
red_harrington said:
Funny that my mate said the same in the 1990s and I'm sure many people have said it before, and since
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Climate breakdown was a distant thought back then, with seemingly plenty of time to change course and avert the worst of it. There wasn’t an unhinged gangster/fascist/criminal lunatic in charge of the most powerful military in the world, backed by the richest man in the world who also happens to be a Nazi.
The U.K. was part of the EU and as such was safer and more secure. Now it’s a small nation of reducing global significance and diminishing influence and soft power, out on its own, aside from NATO, the future of which is far from secure due to afore mentioned psycho president.
Yes, there were wars but they were always way waaay ‘over there’ or far far away, not on Europe’s doorstep. Racism, misogyny, hate etc were being put on the back foot, but they’ve made a big old come back and the age of misinformation that social media has enabled is exacerbating the problem. The standard of living was on the rise, poverty on the fall, but that’s reversed in both cases.

I get what you are saying, but it’s no longer good enough just to pass it all off -‘ oh there has always been alarmist lefties getting their melons in a twist about this stuff and it’s worked out ok so far, so they may as well not worry about things that are out of their control.’
I can’t help but feel it’s a bit different time this time.
 
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