Electric cars Depreciation

[smoggs03]

I live in a mid terraced house on a 1960s housing estate, it’s going to be difficult getting charging points here, there is a wedge of land between my house and roadside parking. Residents just park where they want too, so having an electric point won’t mean it’s your spot.
I only use my car for work so pay accordingly, so with all that in mind it may be a ICE for me.

 

[Andy_W]

My mate has a Tesla and he gets the free supercharging with the car.
Its getting a bit old now and the 80% charge only gave him a range of about 200 miles.
We went to the QPR match in it last month he wanted to stop at Fleet both ways to top up, it took about 20 minutes to add the 60 odd miles he had used which was longer than i expected.

That does seem exceptionally slow!

I don't have a Tesla, but considering most of the tesla's do 4-5 miles per kW, that should only be about 12-15kW, so if it's taking 20 minutes he's only charging at 36-45kW average. Even old model 3's can charge at 170kW and the old v1 superchargers are rated to 100kW. The model 3 and v4 chargers are both rated to 250kW now, so should be ~5x quicker on paper, and the old ones around 3x quicker.

 

[Andy_W]

I live in a mid terraced house on a 1960s housing estate, it’s going to be difficult getting charging points here, there is a wedge of land between my house and roadside parking. Residents just park where they want too, so having an electric point won’t mean it’s your spot.
I only use my car for work so pay accordingly, so with all that in mind it may be a ICE for me.

I think the eventual idea will be to have a few communal sockets every 3 spaces or something, and you plug your own lead in, and then you authorise/ pay on an app (hopefully at "normal" rates). Rollout of this is exceptionally slow mind, needs to be sorted out.

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

It was my idea for her to get an EV as like I said it would be perfect for the daily commute.
I must admit I was quite surprised at the drop off.
I just found it it was for the MG SE

MG Range

297 for towns and cities to 160 motorways.
There is no way she would risk stopping for a charge she would want to get there in one go.

So surely just don't get an MG SE?

It seems a fairly limiting factor mind to base a car purchase on some friends that she visits now and then, but if she insists on it, this table shows you all EV's by range so just look at ones with more range than it takes to go to coventry.

EV Database

Range of electric vehicles cheatsheet. Quick reference for all plug-in hybrid en full electric cars.

ev-database.org

 

[Redpete]

It seems a fairly limiting factor mind to base a car purchase on some friends that she visits now and then, but if she insists on it, this table shows you all EV's by range so just look at ones with more range than it takes to go to coventry.

If it were only that simple. She doent want a big car and it has too look right she wont even get one if its the wrong colour.

As an example of how she will only do what is right and easy for her, when she gets the train North she will sit on the train from Southampton all the way too Manchester taking an extra hour rather than having the hassle of changing at Birmingham.

 

[Nano]

If it were only that simple. She doent want a big car and it has too look right she wont even get one if its the wrong colour.

As an example of how she will only do what is right and easy for her, when she gets the train North she will sit on the train from Southampton all the way too Manchester taking an extra hour rather than having the hassle of changing at Birmingham.

You can get the exact same car but a different version of it with a bigger battery which will increase the range.

Or if it is less hassle try switching wives!

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

If it were only that simple. She doent want a big car and it has too look right she wont even get one if its the wrong colour.

As an example of how she will only do what is right and easy for her, when she gets the train North she will sit on the train from Southampton all the way too Manchester taking an extra hour rather than having the hassle of changing at Birmingham.

The longer range MG? Presume she was ok with that if you were looking at the MG SE? that site says 190 mile range. It also says 160 for the other one but "worst case" is bassed on -10c



vs the extended:

 

[Andy_W]

It was my idea for her to get an EV as like I said it would be perfect for the daily commute.
I must admit I was quite surprised at the drop off.
I just found it it was for the MG SE

MG Range

297 for towns and cities to 160 motorways.
There is no way she would risk stopping for a charge she would want to get there in one go.

The 150 miles is still less than 165, that might be a bit close for comfort for a beginner mind. How often does she drive there, once every few months? See if you can get one on a test drive to try it out?

The 165 mile range is probably based on 70mph for the full 165miles, but I will eat my hat if she averages more than 60 door to door, and it's probably closer to 50. It makes a big difference as drag is a square of speed, so even if she just tooted along at 60 instead of 70, or averaged 50 she would easy do it. She would want to be able to plug in at her mates house though, and it would take about 24 hours to charge back to full on a 3 pin plug.

Could also maybe get the long range, it's 2.5k more, but you will probably save that in fuel per year and get the 2.5k back when you sell it, they're also on 0% at the minute too.

 

[SmallTown]

I live in a mid terraced house on a 1960s housing estate, it’s going to be difficult getting charging points here, there is a wedge of land between my house and roadside parking. Residents just park where they want too, so having an electric point won’t mean it’s your spot.
I only use my car for work so pay accordingly, so with all that in mind it may be a ICE for me.

Near me they have ubitricity charger in lamp posts. This needs rolling out everywhere really

 

[Redpete]

Get your hat out its duel carriageway or motorway all the way takes about 2 and a quarter hours door to door.

Dont get me wrong I am with you all the way but your talking 40K plus for one of these cars, shes currently driving a 5 year old TT which she owns outright but shes worried it will start going wrong, you might get the theme she worries a lot.

Anyhow I have convinced her for now to keep the current car and we will re assess in a couple of years when she is probably looking at retiring and us moving north.

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

birra tha

 

[JustTheGent]

Not sure exactly on insurance, it's part of a fleet, but I just checked on compare the market and it is about £1200 personal so fleet would be about 3/4 of that maybe, not bad for the purchase price/ level of car. I had my details in for my old 4 series petrol and that was showing as 1k, for a 30k car, 3 years older, so not much in it.

Yeah, still the Taycan, was 99k I think, and cars my spec are going for around 75k after 2 years and 68k after 3. But there's only really one within 200 miles in the country similar to my spec. To be honest I don't see that going down much or anything by the time I come to sell or hand it back in, but I also don't think there's much to gain selling an overly price corrected car at a bad time, when prices are low and used demand is high, history says that won't last long. Like I said though, I can get out after 3 years on 40% at worst but that's 40k!.

Not looked at the figures recently but it's something like this for 3 years, assuming 30% depreciation:
30k depreciation, 3k insurance, <1k fuel (for 30k miles in a 4 second 0-60 car), so about 34k for 36k months ex finance, so maybe about 1k per month, would be about 1.2k for 40% depreciation. I would be more than happy with that for the level of the car, as a personal owner if I was looking at cars that level/ age. I bought it through my company though, so next to no company car tax/ BIK, no personal tax, and corp tax deductible too. I wouldn't be surprised if I hadn't saved another 30-40% off that which was also in my consideration when buying, wouldn't have spent as much otherwise.

The Panamera is probably the closest equivalent car in ICE form (I would never buy on of those mind), and they're doing worse, and obviously would not have the same company car tax benefits and the fuel would be 10k more too. I couldn't think what else to compare it too, but M5's and A6 Avants have lost way more too. The whole market for that type/ performance car has dropped, probably mostly due to interest rates going through the roof.

Like I've said before, I budget about 1k per month, and overall, all things considered will come in well under that. If I was budgeting £500 I would have probably got the i4 or a model 3.

How are you judging the depreciation of the Taycan? Going off trade in values and online car buying sites, the Taycan has dropped off a cliff. Indeed, some Porsche dealerships are not even accepting them.

 

[JustTheGent]

With any of these EV threads, there always seem to be lots of if and buts. If you do this and do that and make sure you don't do this - you'll be alright

The majority of people just want to get in their car and drive to where they want to go.

 

[Redpete]

With any of these EV threads, there always seem to be lots of if and buts. If you do this and do that and make sure you don't do this - you'll be alright

The majority of people just want to get in their car and drive to where they want to go.

That is exactly it. As I said to the Mrs re my trip in the Tesla to QPR it was all a bit of a faff he even had to heat up the batteries on route to prepare for the charging then dont park next to someone on a joint charger as its slows down the charging.

I think EV'S are great for short regular journeys assuming you have a drive and can charge at home.
It will take a lot to convince many older drivers to change over.

 

[BoroMart]

That is exactly it. As I said to the Mrs re my trip in the Tesla to QPR it was all a bit of a faff he even had to heat up the batteries on route to prepare for the charging then dont park next to someone on a joint charger as its slows down the charging.

This is all being a bit overblown. It automatically pre-heats the battery for superchargers (as long as you have told the satnav where your destination is), and the shared thing, really isn't a major issue. 20mins you get enough charge to move on, pee and grab a coffee and you are ready to go.

I think EV'S are great for short regular journeys assuming you have a drive and can charge at home.

Agreed

It will take a lot to convince many older drivers to change over.

agreed, but that's through FoC and misinformation largely.

 

[Unravel_Morrison]

That is exactly it. As I said to the Mrs re my trip in the Tesla to QPR it was all a bit of a faff he even had to heat up the batteries on route to prepare for the charging then dont park next to someone on a joint charger as its slows down the charging.

I think EV'S are great for short regular journeys assuming you have a drive and can charge at home.
It will take a lot to convince many older drivers to change over.

The heating up the batteries is a feature on the Tesla to help with charging. It's not like you have to stop and do anything; you just put in where you're going to charge and the car automatically does it.

 

[JustTheGent]

That is exactly it. As I said to the Mrs re my trip in the Tesla to QPR it was all a bit of a faff he even had to heat up the batteries on route to prepare for the charging then dont park next to someone on a joint charger as its slows down the charging.

I think EV'S are great for short regular journeys assuming you have a drive and can charge at home.
It will take a lot to convince many older drivers to change over.

The big problem with the evangelists is that they don't accept that everyone has different circumstances. There's some very bad advice been given that could potentially cost someone a lot of money.

A major example of this is the Andy poster who a couple of years ago was waxing lyrical about how such good value the Porsche Taycan was. Despite been warned numerous times, he maintained that the Taycan could be purchased at effectively a similar price as a much less expensive vehicle. This was done by using depreciation levels that existed in a car market bubble. Of course, a bubble is a bubble - and some basic research will tell you how the Taycan has fared since.

The whole EV thing is a massive contradiction. Why would you create a big jacked up vehicle and then stick a heavy battery in it? That doesn't make sense at all for anybody. There might be a case for small city cars being electric but there's still a long way to go yet. Even those might not succeed in the long term.

 

[Andy_W]

How are you judging the depreciation of the Taycan? Going off trade in values and online car buying sites, the Taycan has dropped off a cliff. Indeed, some Porsche dealerships are not even accepting them.

My current figure is an estimate, based on going off what I expect I could sell it for, if I was not in a crazy rush (which I'm not, I'm not even in any sort of rush). If I didn't have the car for it's current value now, I'd buy it at that value, put it that way.

There's next to none available, with decent wheels/ colours/ specs. All the similar results for all the specs for my year, including crap/ obscure ones are literally on one page, for a national search, 9 in total and four of those are incorrectly listed/ different/ cheaper models. Every month I'm paying off more than it realistically could depreciate for private sale, never been in negative equity since the day it's been owned, and of course I don't need to take less than the PCP figure in 12 months or whenever it is.

It's dropped off a cliff, as a year or two ago mine was going for 10-20% over list (like many cars, that was never going to last), now it's just re-aligned to what would be considered "normal" for a newer car in that bracket, like nearly any other newer car of any fuel type. It's just the market correcting itself, which was to be expected, even if interest rates never got hiked.

Of course I'm not going to take it to WBAC or anywhere like that, nobody in their right mind would do that with this sort of car, certainly not currently, if they had any other option.

Some dealers were advising customers to not weigh them in christmas, I had a similar conversation when I went in to discuss future options for year 2-3 (end). They had 5 of my car then, now they have none, and all were listed for a lot more than I thought I would get. There's probably a 1 year wait on what I would eventually want anyway, which takes me to the point of a guaranteed payment.

 

[Unravel_Morrison]

The big problem with the evangelists is that they don't accept that everyone has different circumstances. There's some very bad advice been given that could potentially cost someone a lot of money.

A major example of this is the Andy poster who a couple of years ago was waxing lyrical about how such good value the Porsche Taycan was. Despite been warned numerous times, he maintained that the Taycan could be purchased at effectively a similar price as a much less expensive vehicle. This was done by using depreciation levels that existed in a car market bubble. Of course, a bubble is a bubble - and some basic research will tell you how the Taycan has fared since.

The whole EV thing is a massive contradiction. Why would you create a big jacked up vehicle and then stick a heavy battery in it? That doesn't make sense at all for anybody. There might be a case for small city cars being electric but there's still a long way to go yet. Even those might not succeed in the long term.

Except most of that is nonsense.

Other than that, spot on.

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

doesn't make sense at all for anybody.

yes, after all who wants to pay a few quid for max range, given the average uk driver does a few k miles a year and short journeys, when you could pay £90 odd to fill up with fuel at a cost that rises regularly.