Electric cars Depreciation

[sweet_left_foot]

Or battery swapping stations? These are starting up now with a target time of 5 minutes - looking for equivalence with petrol filling stations.

that is the other business model. Buy the car - rent the battery. It has its advantages in that you don't ever need to care about degradation but there's a lot of infrastructure involved to do it.
Wireless charging on the motorway or scalextric style brushes for the win

 

[Ironops]

Yeah I wouldn't have an EV in your circumstances, probably another 2-5 years before I could make it make sense if I was in your position.

It will get better when more 350kW chargers are rolled out, to get people in and out faster, from the chargers but also need car makers to think ahead and make the cars be able to take that. Slow charging cars bottleneck the system.

They also need to sort out home charging for flats etc. They need common plug sockets, which get linked by your car or an app to your own electric bill, so you're not paying silly rates, it will happen. Flat livers should be able to pay 5p per kw like most of us can. There's 30k grants available for apartment blocks to get chargers fitted, just need the landlords or building owners to pull their finger out. Same applies to those for street parking, the council's need to get things moving.

I'll deffo go back to electric - the driving experience is superb apart from anything else - but not till my circumstances change

 

[speckyget]

that is the other business model. Buy the car - rent the battery. It has it's advantages in that you don't ever need to care about degradation but there's a lot of infrastructure involved to do it.
Wireless charging on the motorway or scalextric style brushes for the win

Scalextric style slots would be fun

 

[SmallTown]

It's a Kia EV6, Google states it has a 77.4kwh battery, which, I assume would cost £60 to rapid charge. That's expensive for a 260 mile charge. May be cheaper to take my petrol car on the France trip.

Again, you would start with a full battery, ideally charged at home. And then only fast charge when you need to. Please don't "fill up". It's a waster of your time. Check out A better routeplanner (ABRP) which will help you optimise your journeys. I can't re itierate this point enough, due to charging curves "filling up" on a long journey is so slow

 

[SmallTown]

Different companies have been saying this for quite a while. Toyota not so much until recently with the testing going on in california. The Toyota miria has just managed 1k km on a single tank.

There is still the issue of creating the hydrogen cleanly, of course. If the world goes carbon neutral that takes care of itself.

Batteries will probably never be clean, it's a fairly old technology.

That's great and all and good for Toyota. You'll need the 1k KM range given the only refueling places are in Aberdeen!

Also, Maybe eventually hydrogen will be cleaner than batteries. Maybe.
The only 2 problems I can see with that are, again, batteries are a one shot deal, hydrogen has to be constantly produced
OH and
The Mirai has a battery...

Under the skin of the new Mirai

Find out how a hydrogen fuel cell car works.

mag.toyota.co.uk

 

[Redpete]

. If I use the petrol car I get 30mpg and I need 8 gallons of petrol which at £1.50 per litre is about £90.

Blimey I have a VW diesel transporter camper and get about 60 miles for a tenner ( I have always calculated my usage that way ) so if my math is right it would cost me less ( about 67 quid ) than your electric car.

 

[Nano]

Blimey I have a VW diesel transporter camper and get about 60 miles for a tenner ( I have always calculated my usage that way ) so if my math is right it would cost me less ( about 67 quid ) than your electric car.

Probably. The 95% of driving I do when I can charge at home though costs me about 20% of the cost of diesel.

 

[Redpete]

We did consider an EV for the Mrs , her daily commute is about 40 miles so would be perfect.
The problem was she drives to her friends in Coventry every now and then and that is 150 miles.
We looked at various models like the Mini, VW and Kia. The range for all seemed okay 230-260 per charge but on one of the websites it said the range of their EV would drop to about 165 Miles for motorway driving.
As its all motorway to Coventry and the Mrs wouldn't want to risk running out of Juice before getting to her friends shes keeping the petrol car for now.

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

if you are, then ignore fast charging costs. You so rarely need to use them it's no point. Oh and you don't charge to "full" on a fast charger. Never do that. I thionk this is goign to be the biggest hit to transitioning. People need to learn how to refuel again. It doesn't take long once you have one but it is a change. It's the only reason I think battery swaps, range, people asking how long and how much to "fill up" and hydrogen are even talked about. People want things that mirror their current experience not a change. Once you learn how to refuel them they are simple and usually way more convenient.

This is the worst part of the hydrogen argument imo, I don't want to have to go to the hydro station to fill up. We already have electric chargers for cards and electricity on our houses and streets (lampposts). For most people home chargers make sense, for the few that don't have access then alternate solutions can be found but defo no tanks of hydrogen everywhere when home charging is so convenient

 

[Redpete]

My mate has a Tesla and he gets the free supercharging with the car.
Its getting a bit old now and the 80% charge only gave him a range of about 200 miles.
We went to the QPR match in it last month he wanted to stop at Fleet both ways to top up, it took about 20 minutes to add the 60 odd miles he had used which was longer than i expected.

I have to admit it didn't make me want an EV although he did say he only cost him £2 for the journey.

 

[SmallTown]

We did consider an EV for the Mrs , her daily commute is about 40 miles so would be perfect.
The problem was she drives to her friends in Coventry every now and then and that is 150 miles.
We looked at various models like the Mini, VW and Kia. The range for all seemed okay 230-260 per charge but on one of the websites it said the range of their EV would drop to about 165 Miles for motorway driving.
As its all motorway to Coventry and the Mrs wouldn't want to risk running out of Juice before getting to her friends shes keeping the petrol car for now.

I hate to belabour the point but you're always comparing the very worst case fuel costs. For 99% of journeys you would be using much cheaper fuel. Unless ALL you do is 300 mile plus motorway then you're not making a fair comparison. Not thinking of your overall fuel bill per month. I just want an honest conversation about EV which is why I always try and steer people away from "how much to fill up on a motorway" comments because for most people it's only representative of a very tiny amount of their car usage. It's like saying "Oh my ICE vehicle costs £2000 every month to run" because in one month you had to get your MOT, tax, service and insurance done and that was the cost all in.

 

[SmallTown]

My mate has a Tesla and he gets the free supercharging with the car.
Its getting a bit old now and the 80% charge only gave him a range of about 200 miles.
We went to the QPR match in it last month he wanted to stop at Fleet both ways to top up, it took about 20 minutes to add the 60 odd miles he had used which was longer than i expected.

I have to admit it didn't make me want an EV although he did say he only cost him £2 for the journey.

I'm guessing he has a NACS tesla with a CCS adaptor if he has free supercharging? Yes I wouldn't recommend this at all. I had one as a courtesy car once and the adaptor gave awful charge speeds

 

[SmallTown]

This is the worst part of the hydrogen argument imo, I don't want to have to go to the hydro station to fill up. We already have electric chargers for cards and electricity on our houses and streets (lampposts). For most people home chargers make sense, for the few that don't have access then alternate solutions can be found but defo no tanks of hydrogen everywhere when home charging is so convenient

This is a good point. I bang on about it A LOT but that's because some people who argue against EV just don't seem to get how convenient it can be if you can charge from home, or wherever it is you happen to be. I honestly find it strange that people would argue FOR going to a specific building and making a journey just to refuel when you could do it wherever you happened to be parking anyway. I guess it's just what people are used to.

 

[Hammies_Tash]

A neighbour of mine is a used car dealer, smallish plot, about 80 cars in stock I would say, family business been going 40+ years, built their reputation on good quality used cars, every car with a minimum 2 yr parts & labour warranty. He went quite big on used EV’s a few years back, I’d say half his stock was used EV’s.
He’s now completely pulled out of the used EV market, said he can’t find a company now that will issue a warranty on them, too high a risk on costs of repairs (new batteries I guess) , he said it’s killed the market he couldn’t give them away. He did say the whole used car market has changed massively, rarely gets anyone on his forecourt, sells 90% of stock on the internet, driven by the convenience of companies like cinch & cazoo, he’s looking to pack up and sell his lot for housing development

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

Blimey I have a VW diesel transporter camper and get about 60 miles for a tenner ( I have always calculated my usage that way ) so if my math is right it would cost me less ( about 67 quid ) than your electric car.

Suppose that's true if you're always on the road with it. But when within 130 miles of home (i.e 230 mile range - Majority of the UK that would cover almost all of their driving. ) we've been charging back to "full" for £2. Most we've paid is about £5. Tomorrow it's 2p a unit, Saturday is expected to go into a negative price. I've not seen a diesel that pays you to drive it. Very rare we would have to use motorway chargers.

For tour other post dropping from 260 to 165 seems a bit of a stretch, but either way she would only need a minor top up to get her the whole return journey, I can't see it failing on a 150 mile journey. This is a US site but shows what cars achieved combined and highway vs their target range

 

[Redpete]

I'm guessing he has a NACS tesla with a CCS adaptor if he has free supercharging? Yes I wouldn't recommend this at all. I had one as a courtesy car once and the adaptor gave awful charge speeds

That sounds about right bit he did mention he had the charging port altered by Tesla I think to allow for the faster charging. I will have to ask him.
I know he usually charges at home he has a good set up with panels and battery's etc.

What would you recommend for charging away from home?

 

[Redpete]

For tour other post dropping from 260 to 165 seems a bit of a stretch, but either way she would only need a minor top up to get her the whole return journey, I can't see it failing on a 150 mile journey.

It was my idea for her to get an EV as like I said it would be perfect for the daily commute.
I must admit I was quite surprised at the drop off.
I just found it it was for the MG SE

MG Range

297 for towns and cities to 160 motorways.
There is no way she would risk stopping for a charge she would want to get there in one go.

 

[SmallTown]

That sounds about right bit he did mention he had the charging port altered by Tesla I think to allow for the faster charging. I will have to ask him.
I know he usually charges at home he has a good set up with panels and battery's etc.

What would you recommend for charging away from home?

I always try and seek put an AC charger near were I am staying our visiting. The bonus of refueling whilst you do whatever you do anyway is perfect. And in some places you essentially don't have to pay for parking becasue you can use your refueling for 7 hours. That's only if I'm doing a 300 mile+ round trip of course. Otherwise I just don't charge at all.

 

[BoroMart]

My mate has a Tesla and he gets the free supercharging with the car.
Its getting a bit old now and the 80% charge only gave him a range of about 200 miles.
We went to the QPR match in it last month he wanted to stop at Fleet both ways to top up, it took about 20 minutes to add the 60 odd miles he had used which was longer than i expected.

I have to admit it didn't make me want an EV although he did say he only cost him £2 for the journey.

20mins on a supercharger gets you back to 80%, personally If I drive 200m I need to stop for a pee and/or coffee anyway, so I don't even notice it

 

[Andy_W]

A neighbour of mine is a used car dealer, smallish plot, about 80 cars in stock I would say, family business been going 40+ years, built their reputation on good quality used cars, every car with a minimum 2 yr parts & labour warranty. He went quite big on used EV’s a few years back, I’d say half his stock was used EV’s.
He’s now completely pulled out of the used EV market, said he can’t find a company now that will issue a warranty on them, too high a risk on costs of repairs (new batteries I guess) , he said it’s killed the market he couldn’t give them away. He did say the whole used car market has changed massively, rarely gets anyone on his forecourt, sells 90% of stock on the internet, driven by the convenience of companies like cinch & cazoo, he’s looking to pack up and sell his lot for housing development

He was probably doing alright on EV's when they were selling over list or not depreciating on his forecourt, hence why he bought so many. Problem is the one's he's bought in will likely have came at a premium, and now the prices have come back to parity (extremely quickly) and caught him out, as they would any small dealer. Tough to time that right for a small dealer, but ultimately comes down to a bad decision/ bad timing or a combination of both.

Warranty thing seems a poor excuse. Why doesn't he issue his own warranty, and insure against it? That could eb a big winner if none of his competition can do the same. Any EV has pretty much a 100,000 mile/ 8 year manufacturer warranty on the battery and motor and there's not much else which can go wrong that isn't a simple fix for a garage. Can't be many EV's for sale which are outside of that, which aren't first gen?

Tough to compete with the massive dealers though, and on-line, the walk in's thing doesn't really seem a thing anymore. Last two cars I bought private I didn't even go and seem them.