Debenhams look likely to go under with 14000 jobs at risk

[ThatFragranceGuy]

Unfortunately I don't think you can have just entertainment. It needs to be a mix of entertainment/restaurants/pubs etc and shops. People go shopping and then do the other things while they are in the area. Footfall is important for a lot of those businesses. Once the shops have gone then the appeal of setting up a reliant business also goes away. If more people are working from home this will also reduce daytime footfall in town centres anyway. It means town centres will be deserted during the day.

I think these venues will have a place but they will follow the retail. Businesses will move around to wherever is cheapest and they have access to the biggest customer base. If councils decide that rates in out of town retail parks need to go up to make up for the drop in town centres then something else might change that is different to the high street/retail park model.

Councils don’t set rates do they? They just collect them, believe it’s set by central government. Setting out of town rates higher will just set this trend off again as stores suddenly become less profitable.

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

I dont think we will ever or should ever go back to the offices in the way we did in the past. The one benefit from all of this is not having to sit in the car for a 2 hour commute each day, having to get up at 6 to beat the traffic, eating awful on the go food etc. Huge benefit working at home not wasting time on the commute and actually having the time to eat properly and be finished at a decent time. It feels absolutely life changing to have so much extra free time and I feel so much healthier for it too, from speaking to others it seems like this is a similar story everywhere.
Also from a business view not having to pay thousands to rent offices every year must be a massive plus.

Just hope it continues and the government stop trying to force people back into offices

this is me basically - like my job but it hardly exists around here, but lots in Leeds / newcastle. My last two jobs have been in scarcroft and gosforth, worked they first one from home for four years then moved to gosforth one back in the office but then Covid hit and they’ve decided we will work from home permanently now although maintain offices for occasional sessions. Don’t miss early nights and early mornings and 1.5 hours each way commute one bit.

 

[Piccadilly Day Tripper]

Another side to all the job losses in retail is how many women will be affected. there will be a dearth of jobs for women who need to work more flexible hours to look after kids etc

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

Another side to all the job losses in retail is how many women will be affected. there will be a dearth of jobs for women who need to work more flexible hours to look after kids etc

Students / young people too. Automation and completion for jobs could well squeeze them out more as more experienced people willing to be paid less

 

[boromike85]

Councils don’t set rates do they? They just collect them, believe it’s set by central government. Setting out of town rates higher will just set this trend off again as stores suddenly become less profitable.

Yeh, you're right. Councils just collect. It's a HMRC department. The same applies though, whoever is setting it. If businesses stop using town centre and go to cheaper areas then less rates will be collected in total and they'll adjust the calculations. Businesses will then move and we will have empty town centres and empty retail parks.

I've never liked business rates as a tax. It would be better to tax the sales they make or their profit from being there instead of an upfront cost. Obviously it would involve something more complicated than that because not every business sells from their premises or makes a profit. We'd want to avoid loopholes but that money should make its way into the government coffers through corporation, VAT, income tax etc. instead. It also massively disadvantages poorer towns that can't collect as much in rates or be flexible in attracting businesses.

 

[1finny]

Yeh, you're right. Councils just collect. It's a HMRC department. The same applies though, whoever is setting it. If businesses stop using town centre and go to cheaper areas then less rates will be collected in total and they'll adjust the calculations. Businesses will then move and we will have empty town centres and empty retail parks.

I've never liked business rates as a tax. It would be better to tax the sales they make or their profit from being there instead of an upfront cost. Obviously it would involve something more complicated than that because not every business sells from their premises or makes a profit. We'd want to avoid loopholes but that money should make its way into the government coffers through corporation, VAT, income tax etc. instead. It also massively disadvantages poorer towns that can't collect as much in rates or be flexible in attracting businesses.

Interesting that Mike.
Our business has a property portfolio with a good chunk of retail space.
We have signed up a number of fashion retailers lately but (buyers market and all that) have agreed turnover related rent.
In short they were saying to us -
If this location is as fabulous as you say it is let’s share the risk/upside.

 

[BoroMart]

The killer is - how long can anyone in leisure/hospitality/clothing retail keep going?
This virus ain’t going away anytime soon and if you ignore the optimistic hype (I understand why it is out there) a vacccine is still over a year away at best.

That is a long time to go without much income

I absolutely agree there is a lot of pain to come and the double whammy of Brexit could be an absolute killer for this country. Our place at the top table of world economics may be about to end