david baddiel - racist bullying & humiliation of Jason Lee

Redwurzel

Well-known member
Anyone - Did writers in FMTTM call Mark Burke. Sooty?

My guess is that there will be references in the early editions - he left around 1991.

I do remember there was rival fanzione to FMTTM called BreadnBoro for a couple of months around 1989 and it was quite proud to refer to the Cripples Corner of Ayresome Park (NE corner near Boys End where fans using wheelchairs were sited). I never bought it again after reading that. But it shows how bad things were back in 1989.
 
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The Card Cheat

Well-known member
Anyone - Did writers in FMTTM call Mark Burke. Sooty?

My guess is that there will be references in the early editions - he left around 1991.

I do remember there was rival fanzione to FMTTM called BreadnBoro for a couple of months around 1989 and it was quite proud to refer to the Cripples Corner of Ayresome Park (NE corner near Boys End where fans using wheelchairs were sited). I never bought it again after reading that. But it shows how bad things were back in 1989.

I remember the cover of fmttm in 88 just after we’d lost 3-2 to spurs.....😱
 

Uwefuchs

Well-known member
Just looked through that twitter thread about Baddiel and his 'sketch' where he mocks people with down syndrome is disgusting. Its not whatboutery and its not about the times being different then, it was just plain wrong.
 

atypical_boro

Well-known member
Just looked through that twitter thread about Baddiel and his 'sketch' where he mocks people with down syndrome is disgusting. Its not whatboutery and its not about the times being different then, it was just plain wrong.
Not seen that? Link?
 

atypical_boro

Well-known member
The film he is making fun of literally has people with down syndrome in it. Its in the 3rd tweet.
Ah ok, seen it now. Yes it’s not good that. I imagine the only defence he’d have is that it was 30 years ago and he was young/naive? I’m not making excuses for him though. From memory there was a fair bit of that kind of thing on both Mary Whitehouse and Newman&Baddiel, none of which will have dated well.
 

Uwefuchs

Well-known member
Ah ok, seen it now. Yes it’s not good that. I imagine the only defence he’d have is that it was 30 years ago and he was young/naive? I’m not making excuses for him though. From memory there was a fair bit of that kind of thing on both Mary Whitehouse and Newman&Baddiel, none of which will have dated well.

Not having a go at you but I think he's old enough on those clips to know better and it was the 90s not the dark ages.

I grew up in that era and went to a primary school close to a centre which was used by adults with special needs and disabilities, I remember it was a running joke that people used to say their school mates belonged in that place if they were bad at football/ clumsy/ whatever. I think I figured out before I left primary school that it wasn't good to joke about stuff like that and I can't remember that type of humour in secondary school.

By adulthood and when you are doing stand up on TV I don't see how he ever thought that was funny or acceptable.

It actually surprised me because I think he generally comes across pretty well on the rare occasions I see him on TV nowadays. I think there is a problem with anti semitism in the world as well and he's right about that, so let's just get that clear because I'm not trying to deflect anything.
 

atypical_boro

Well-known member
Not having a go at you but I think he's old enough on those clips to know better and it was the 90s not the dark ages.

I grew up in that era and went to a primary school close to a centre which was used by adults with special needs and disabilities, I remember it was a running joke that people used to say their school mates belonged in that place if they were bad at football/ clumsy/ whatever. I think I figured out before I left primary school that it wasn't good to joke about stuff like that and I can't remember that type of humour in secondary school.

By adulthood and when you are doing stand up on TV I don't see how he ever thought that was funny or acceptable.

It actually surprised me because I think he generally comes across pretty well on the rare occasions I see him on TV nowadays. I think there is a problem with anti semitism in the world as well and he's right about that, so let's just get that clear because I'm not trying to deflect anything.
You might be right. He is early twenties and the Mary Whitehouse Experience was intended to be “edgy” but I agree it’s not a good look, certainly not in hindsight but probably not then either.
 

Glover_elbow

Well-known member
Not having a go at you but I think he's old enough on those clips to know better and it was the 90s not the dark ages.

I grew up in that era and went to a primary school close to a centre which was used by adults with special needs and disabilities, I remember it was a running joke that people used to say their school mates belonged in that place if they were bad at football/ clumsy/ whatever. I think I figured out before I left primary school that it wasn't good to joke about stuff like that and I can't remember that type of humour in secondary school.

By adulthood and when you are doing stand up on TV I don't see how he ever thought that was funny or acceptable.

It actually surprised me because I think he generally comes across pretty well on the rare occasions I see him on TV nowadays. I think there is a problem with anti semitism in the world as well and he's right about that, so let's just get that clear because I'm not trying to deflect anything.
Agree, I think Badiel is right in what his saying about antisemitism being dismissed by many as less serious than other forms of racism. However 30 years to apologise for his part in the career assassination of jason lee rings very hollow with me. What he did to jason lee was vindictive to the point it caused lee mental health issues not just the black face but mocking his footballing ability, I remember the awful stick from fans as a result. Fair play to jason lee he comes across as the better man the Badiel, i don't think i could be so forgiving.
 

Redwurzel

Well-known member
There are 260,000 people who are of the Jewish faith in the UK - most are well integrated into UK society. Thats about 0.4% of the UK population and its declining. The synagogue in Middlesbrough is closed down isn't it? Many would now consider themselves middle class like David Badiel.

This might be an issue with lack of interest in anti-semitism.

The Jewish faith is an interesting story in the UK. Many came to the UK after pograms in Imperial Russia and Eastern Europe (Alan Sugars family) or came from scattered communities in places like Iran, Iraq and Egypt (Amy Winehouse) or refugees from Europe around the time of WW2 (David Badiel).

The other interesting aspect is the state of Isreal.

In the 1930s Far right groups in Europe including the UK concentrated hatred on rich Jewish businessman or even Jewish communists (Marx, Trotsky) - now its settlers and leaders in Israel that are verbally attacked/criticised. If you criticise Israel you are anti semitic according to some people. I can differentiate the two but it is tight because Isreal has always promoted itself as a pure Jewish state, the only one in the World that created itself from fire and had to defend itself from invasion twice in 1967 and 1973. Surrounded on all sides by Arab/Muslim states with the exception of Lebanon that is about 60%? muslim.

Ref Jason Lee - the Fantasy Football Show in the early 1990s was very ladish - it lampooned the "Stato" character quite badly as well as Jason Lee. What it did to Jason Lee was wrong, wrong now and wrong then. The lampooning to me was more focused on his hairstyle (unique at the time) more than his skin colour, still does not make it right. We may criticise some of the Woke behaviour today, but I would not turn the clock back to the early 1990s.
 
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TheBoroBuzzard

Well-known member
I remember the cover of fmttm in 88 just after we’d lost 3-2 to spurs.....😱
I know which clover you are referring too, at the time no one said anything…so again I think times have moved on and totally agree it would be unacceptable now and probably result in a court case..in 1988 this humor was unfortunately acceptabl, but the world is now more educated.
 

MolteniArcore

Well-known member
I haven't really ever heard any anti-semitism in my normal life. I may well live in an area with hardly any Jewish people and that is why but in all fairness for years we had hardly any black or asian people but I would hear plenty of racism against them.

I was pretty shocked when I was hearing about how much of a problem it is on TV etc over recent years. I ignorantly didn't think it existed anymore.
 

newusername

Well-known member
I think he's old enough on those clips to know better and it was the 90s not the dark ages.

...I think I figured out before I left primary school that it wasn't good to joke about stuff like that and I can't remember that type of humour in secondary school.

By adulthood and when you are doing stand up on TV I don't see how he ever thought that was funny or acceptable.

TBH I thought the point of MWE was that it was offensive.

Mary Whitehouse had campaigned against liberalism, blasphemy, swearing, loose morals etc in the media for 40 odd years, those shackles had finally been thrown off and TV was experimenting with what it could now do.

Calling their show the Mary Whitehouse Experience was obviously intended to show who had the power & who had none and you wouldn't have expected it to be simple humour about a hapless middle aged middle manager having a midlife crisis.

Similarly Newman & Baddiel was just juvenile humour at its best/worst. I'm glad your Secondary School had grown out of it but mine was awash with people saying 'you know the bit of spittle that comes out of Mr Xs mouth when he's shouting at someone ... that's you that is'.
 
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