david baddiel - racist bullying & humiliation of Jason Lee

Johnny Vincents Motorbike

Well-known member
took him a quarter of a century to apologise to Jason Lee for the harm he caused to his Mental Health and the ruination of his career for blackfacing and racist comment - Jasons family were also deeply affected..

david he has a new book out.

david he has a new tv programme - about racism, only this is special racism - in the tv programme he targets Dawn Butler MP, Dawn just happens to black - false prophet & charlatan is david.
 

atypical_boro

Well-known member
took him a quarter of a century to apologise to Jason Lee for the harm he caused to his Mental Health and the ruination of his career for blackfacing and racist comment - Jasons family were also deeply affected..

david he has a new book out.

david he has a new tv programme - about racism, only this is special racism - in the tv programme he targets Dawn Butler MP, Dawn just happens to black - false prophet & charlatan is david.
People change though don't they? Its not like he is still getting on Jason Lee's back.
 

Johnny Vincents Motorbike

Well-known member
People change though don't they? Its not like he is still getting on Jason Lee's back.


why attack Dawn Butler then ? - history repeating itself.

and it was a little bit more than 'getting on his back'
 

atypical_boro

Well-known member



why attack Dawn Butler then ? - history repeating itself.

and it was a little bit more than 'getting on his back'
Well it was meant as a joke wasn't it, similar to Bo Selecta with Craig David etc. Not saying that makes it ok though.
 

Mansize_Rooster

New member
took him a quarter of a century to apologise to Jason Lee for the harm he caused to his Mental Health and the ruination of his career for blackfacing and racist comment - Jasons family were also deeply affected..

david he has a new book out.

david he has a new tv programme - about racism, only this is special racism - in the tv programme he targets Dawn Butler MP, Dawn just happens to black - false prophet & charlatan is david.
Except it wasn’t racist. The jokes were all aimed at his stupid haircut. “He’s got a pineapple on his head” etc. and also him missing chances.

Why does the race card have to be used for everything these days?
 

atypical_boro

Well-known member
Except it wasn’t racist. The jokes were all aimed at his stupid haircut. “He’s got a pineapple on his head” etc. and also him missing chances.

Why does the race card have to be used for everything these days?
I think the blackfacing is more what's now not accepted. Racist? These things are not binary in my personal view. They were definitely pretty unkind to him, but they're certainly not the only comedians to have gone after someone. I watched some episodes of Harry and Paul from the late 00's recently where they blackfaced as Mandela, these don't appear to have been given the same retrospective scrutiny.
 

SE4 Red

Well-known member
Except it wasn’t racist. The jokes were all aimed at his stupid haircut. “He’s got a pineapple on his head” etc. and also him missing chances.

Why does the race card have to be used for everything these days?
You should listen to the podcast. It was very clearly racist and went too far at the time although I admit I laughed along (I was only a kid). It was a difficult conversation for both I think listening to it and Jason Lee doesn't let him off with a simple apology.
 

rbmfc1985

Well-known member
Except it wasn’t racist. The jokes were all aimed at his stupid haircut. “He’s got a pineapple on his head” etc. and also him missing chances.
Whether it was racist or not, it wasn't acceptable. Frank Skinner has publicly accepted that, looks like David Baddiel has privately. I don't see why anyone would try to defend it.

"In a 2022 interview, Skinner said their behaviour had been unacceptable: "Looking back, it was a bullying campaign. And it's awful. And yeah, I'm ashamed of it ... It wouldn't be too much to say we're both deeply ashamed.""
 

festa5

Well-known member
You should listen to the podcast. It was very clearly racist and went too far at the time although I admit I laughed along (I was only a kid). It was a difficult conversation for both I think listening to it and Jason Lee doesn't let him off with a simple apology.
Yeah pretty sure I laughed along and didn't think anything of it at the time, was probably 15/16?

In hindsight definitely racist by today's standards, probably wasn't held to be at the time? 🤷🏼‍♂️ (definitely bullying though).

Shows that sometimes we actually have progressed a bit as a society (who'd have thought?).

Also shows the difficulty in judging past actions by today's standards. I don't think it means everyone automatically get a pass, but context should be taken into account. It's a tricky one.
 

atypical_boro

Well-known member
Whether it was racist or not, it wasn't acceptable. Frank Skinner has publicly accepted that, looks like David Baddiel has privately. I don't see why anyone would try to defend it.

"In a 2022 interview, Skinner said their behaviour had been unacceptable: "Looking back, it was a bullying campaign. And it's awful. And yeah, I'm ashamed of it ... It wouldn't be too much to say we're both deeply ashamed.""
Whilst these are wise words from Skinner (although that quote doesn't say 'racist'), everyone who made FFL such a big show at the time by watching is guilty to a degree. It was 'uncomfortable' and that was the point, things that people find (or found) hilarious are rarely 100% comfortable for every single person on the planet. There was very little outrage at the time, and certainly no 'cancelling' etc.

That behaviour was widely accepted by society, so its not just Baddiel and Skinner who should feel bad. They also targeted lots of people including Saint and Greavsie and Pele himself, to a degree it looks as if its seen as 'worse' because Jason Lee was actually a very mediocre player (but that's not actually their fault).
 

Glover_elbow

Well-known member
took him a quarter of a century to apologise to Jason Lee for the harm he caused to his Mental Health and the ruination of his career for blackfacing and racist comment - Jasons family were also deeply affected..

david he has a new book out.

david he has a new tv programme - about racism, only this is special racism - in the tv programme he targets Dawn Butler MP, Dawn just happens to black - false prophet & charlatan is david.
Dawn butler made a anti-racism speech which named every minority group under the sun the list was incredibly long, but she omitted to mention, Jews, as a group, it was seriously remiss of butler. I think what hes trying to say is there seems to be scale of racism, and anti-Semitism is not considered as serious as racism targeted at other groups.
 

viv_andersons_nana

Well-known member
People defending it FFS. He blacked up. There’s this defence of “it happened in the 90s, things have changed a lot since then,” well yeah they have but we knew it was wrong in the 90s well. And the 60s, 70s, 80s.

When Baddiel blacked up for the first time I actually learned about what it meant from our Mam. She used to tape Fantasy Football and we’d watch it on a Saturday morning, before going to the Boro matches. She gasped when Baddiel walked out in black face, I can still remember it clearly. I asked why and she just said “you shouldn’t do that, it’s not a nice thing to do,” which seems fairly tame but I was about 9 or 10.

It’s indefensible. The jokes about Jason Lee’s hairstyle, yeah whatever floats your boat I suppose, I laughed at the pineapple stuff when I was 9 or 10. But the black face is different, very different. It’s disgusting. It’s racism. And Jason Lee is the only person to emerge from any of this with any credit, so more power to him IMO.
 

atypical_boro

Well-known member
People defending it FFS. He blacked up. There’s this defence of “it happened in the 90s, things have changed a lot since then,” well yeah they have but we knew it was wrong in the 90s well. And the 60s, 70s, 80s.

When Baddiel blacked up for the first time I actually learned about what it meant from our Mam. She used to tape Fantasy Football and we’d watch it on a Saturday morning, before going to the Boro matches. She gasped when Baddiel walked out in black face, I can still remember it clearly. I asked why and she just said “you shouldn’t do that, it’s not a nice thing to do,” which seems fairly tame but I was about 9 or 10.

It’s indefensible. The jokes about Jason Lee’s hairstyle, yeah whatever floats your boat I suppose, I laughed at the pineapple stuff when I was 9 or 10. But the black face is different, very different. It’s disgusting. It’s racism. And Jason Lee is the only person to emerge from any of this with any credit, so more power to him IMO.
I don't think anyone is saying 'oh its fine, do it again'. Society has rightly decided it is no longer acceptable, and in hindsight, should never have been.

We all watched it, but if we knew it was categorically wrong at the time we wouldn't have, surely? Same goes for Harry & Paul, Vic & Bob, and almost every other 90s/00s comedian.
 

NorthumberlandBoro

Well-known member
Surprised to see all the clips are still on YouTube.
Not going to share as are they are quite shocking by today's standards.
Don't recall there being an outcry at the time.
 

viv_andersons_nana

Well-known member
I don't think anyone is saying 'oh its fine, do it again'. Society has rightly decided it is no longer acceptable.

We all watched it, if we knew it was categorically wrong at the time we wouldn't have, surely? Same goes for Harry & Paul, Vic & Bob, and almost every other 90s/00s comedian.
We’ve always known it was unacceptable. The difference now is the marginalised, the minority groups, have platforms from which to rightly point this stuff out. You can’t ‘get away with it’ any more.

Black people, gay people, trans people, whoever it may be, can call it out at the time whereas in the past they haven’t had that platform or opportunity.
 

atypical_boro

Well-known member
We’ve always known it was unacceptable. The difference now is the marginalised, the minority groups, have platforms from which to rightly point this stuff out.
If we knew it was categorically unacceptable and still watched it/laughed at it, then we're all racist.

At the time, I didn't, and most people didn't know that hence why these comedians (inc. our very own Bob Mortimer) became superstars. The reasons for that can be debated but I don't think its as binary as saying 'we knew it was racist and we were always against it'.
 
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