david baddiel - racist bullying & humiliation of Jason Lee

atypical_boro

Well-known member
Why would his intention matter?
Not knowing or understanding that a word/phrase has racist/homophobic/sexist connotations is different to knowing it does and using it anyway.

"Rule of thumb" would be a good example. Some women think its offensive to use this term. There are literally millions of people out there who'd use it completely innocently and don't deserve to be labelled sexist if they do.
 
Last edited:

festa5

Well-known member
Not knowing or understanding that a word/phrase has racist/homophobic/sexist connotations is different to knowing it does and using it anyway.

"Rule of thumb" would be a good example. Some women think its offensive to use this term.

oh I agree. Was more a gentle challenge to Viv who seems to view the issue in much more black and white (no pun intended) terms than maybe you or I do.

Which is of course a no less valid viewpoint and you've done the hard yards in having that debate with him anyway!

And, like you I think, most of what Viv says I completely agree with.
 

Capybara

Well-known member
Not knowing or understanding that a word/phrase has racist/homophobic/sexist connotations is different to knowing it does and using it anyway.

"Rule of thumb" would be a good example. Some women think its offensive to use this term. There are literally millions of people out there who'd use it completely innocently and don't deserve to be labelled sexist if they do.
Well I've never heard of the phrase as being sexist or offensive before. So I've looked it up and it turns out the reason it is seen as offensive is not actually true. Not a surprise really as if it were then it wouldn't actually make sense in respect of what it means.
 
People defending it FFS. He blacked up. There’s this defence of “it happened in the 90s, things have changed a lot since then,” well yeah they have but we knew it was wrong in the 90s well. And the 60s, 70s, 80s.

When Baddiel blacked up for the first time I actually learned about what it meant from our Mam. She used to tape Fantasy Football and we’d watch it on a Saturday morning, before going to the Boro matches. She gasped when Baddiel walked out in black face, I can still remember it clearly. I asked why and she just said “you shouldn’t do that, it’s not a nice thing to do,” which seems fairly tame but I was about 9 or 10.

It’s indefensible. The jokes about Jason Lee’s hairstyle, yeah whatever floats your boat I suppose, I laughed at the pineapple stuff when I was 9 or 10. But the black face is different, very different. It’s disgusting. It’s racism. And Jason Lee is the only person to emerge from any of this with any credit, so more power to him IMO.
So what about the Black and white minstrels?, Al Johnson for instance
 

atypical_boro

Well-known member
Well I've never heard of the phrase as being sexist or offensive before. So I've looked it up and it turns out the reason it is seen as offensive is not actually true. Not a surprise really as if it were then it wouldn't actually make sense in respect of what it means.
Case in point though. Some women find it offensive, I was pulled up on it once. So do I continue to use it or not?
 

newusername

Well-known member
1669135020499.png
I think it is a facet of public discourse at the moment that the right wing / right leaning media & commentators examine the minutiae of a person's previous behaviour looking for the slightest flaw so that they can engage in a lazy ad hominem attacks so that they don't have to address the point being raised.
 

Nosmo-King

Well-known member
I find some of the views on this thread especially one dimensional.Especially when we had a player in our ranks - Mark Burke- known extensively by Boro fans as Sooty.

Was this right? Of course not. But to compare references from years ago to today is misplaced. The world is a different place. I am sure some who used that terminology for Mark Burke years ago cringe with embarrassment.
 

atypical_boro

Well-known member
I find some of the views on this thread especially one dimensional.Especially when we had a player in our ranks - Mark Burke- known extensively by Boro fans as Sooty.

Was this right? Of course not. But to compare references from years ago to today is misplaced. The world is a different place. I am sure some who used that terminology for Mark Burke years ago cringe with embarrassment.
I recently dug out an old Sunday Times preview of the season ahead from around 1999-2000.

Apparently we used to “affectionately” use the name “Hamilton *****” for one of our strikers. Imagine that now, and it being printed in the Times as though it was just a bit of fun.

EDIT: even the swear filter won’t allow it. The word is reeeeetard by the way.
 

ThePrisoner

Well-known member
I find some of the views on this thread especially one dimensional.Especially when we had a player in our ranks - Mark Burke- known extensively by Boro fans as Sooty.

Was this right? Of course not. But to compare references from years ago to today is misplaced. The world is a different place. I am sure some who used that terminology for Mark Burke years ago cringe with embarrassment.
On the plus side I don't remember seeing any fans in black face at the games :oops:
 

atypical_boro

Well-known member
Yes, once you've pointed out their profound ignorance.
They don’t always instantly accept it though. Before you know it you’re the local misogynist who advocates wife beating! It’s a conundrum, but exactly why I think intent is important.
 

atypical_boro

Well-known member
I honestly think the view back then would have been “it’s ok, we are paying homage to him”. I don’t think they’d have been setting out to try and hurt Emo’s feelings TBF. Not saying people should still do it though, they shouldn’t.
 
Last edited:

Scrote

Well-known member
Dawn mentioned every single potentially oppressed minority apart from Jews.
It is worthy of mentioning.

When challenged, she, and her colleagues said ‘it was implicit that she meant Jews too’.
Make of that what you will
She reeled off a long list but didn't specifically mention a whole slew of nationalities/groups that are (or could be) discriminated against.

She finished by saying that anyone considered as 'other' fell under the umbrella of her declaration of support - i.e. implicitly including anyone and everyone that might be oppressed.

Make of that what you will...
 
Top