Costcappen

Chappy112 said:
Because they believe some of costs they didn’t include shouldn’t have been in the budget and they didn’t leave enough of a buffer with the $4m they left to keep them under. It doesn’t have to be fraud or financial doping, it can just be misinterpretation or disagreement about the rules.

I read one of the issues was spare parts, the FIA changed the rules this year so that unused spare parts are now included in the budget but then applied that to the 2021 budget. I can see why Red Bull would take issue with that.

Sport is going down a really weird path with social media where everyone is a cheat or corrupt, you see it with fans about refs and VAR every week and I’m starting to find it quite boring.

The FIA are useless there’s no doubt about it but this incessant whinging and going way over the top when it’s team you dislike is tedious to say the least.
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I follow the sport quite extensively and not just from my armchair. Can't see where I've whinged or gone over the top, in fact I think my opinions are quite moderate. On the other hand, you seem to have quite a dismissive tone.
 
BoroFur said:
I follow the sport quite extensively and not just from my armchair. Can't see where I've whinged or gone over the top, in fact I think my opinions are quite moderate. On the other hand, you seem to have quite a dismissive tone.
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I’m dismissive of the corrupt and fraud shouts yes because they’re ridiculous and should be left to lunatics on Twitter.
 
Chappy112 said:
Because they believe some of costs they didn’t include shouldn’t have been in the budget and they didn’t leave enough of a buffer with the $4m they left to keep them under. It doesn’t have to be fraud or financial doping, it can just be misinterpretation or disagreement about the rules.

I read one of the issues was spare parts, the FIA changed the rules this year so that unused spare parts are now included in the budget but then applied that to the 2021 budget. I can see why Red Bull would take issue with that.

Sport is going down a really weird path with social media where everyone is a cheat or corrupt, you see it with fans about refs and VAR every week and I’m starting to find it quite boring.

The FIA are useless there’s no doubt about it but this incessant whinging and going way over the top when it’s team you dislike is tedious to say the least.
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You’ve got it the wrong way round, it’s not like we dislike red bull and then they cheated. It’s that we dislike red bull because they cheat. And they are utterly brazen and graceless about it. And the governing body allows it
 
Chappy112 said:
I don’t see how you can say that to be honest, there’s no other way to interpret the OP:
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You could interpret it as starting a discussion about current events. Which it was, as has happened. I’m not sure why people love to argue with me and then say “that Smalltown, always arguing. But I guess I’m stuck with it until you people stop the lie
 
SmallTown said:
You could interpret it as starting a discussion about current events. Which it was, as has happened. I’m not sure why people love to argue with me and then say “that Smalltown, always arguing. But I guess I’m stuck with it until you people stop the lie
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Nice bit of gaslighting there ST

‘You can’t make a blind man see’

I think that’s the calendar quote you’d use here.
 
SmallTown said:
You could interpret it as starting a discussion about current events. Which it was, as has happened. I’m not sure why people love to argue with me and then say “that Smalltown, always arguing. But I guess I’m stuck with it until you people stop the lie
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Costcappen, Maxettes and zorro all mentioned in the title/OP, it’s clearly trying to provoke Zorro whether you admit it or not. This isn’t just some innocent making of a thread to speak about F1.
 
The GOATilton fans are struggling to accept the fact that Verstappen is performing at a higher level than GOATilton ever got close to.

2x WDC and counting..😎
 
Chappy112 said:
Costcappen, Maxettes and zorro all mentioned in the title/OP, it’s clearly trying to provoke Zorro whether you admit it or not. This isn’t just some innocent making of a thread to speak about F1.
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Do you think it's only ST who uses terminology like this?
 
BoroFur said:
Do you think it's only ST who uses terminology like this?
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I'm sure other people have spoke like that although I can't think of any off the top of my head. Either way it makes no difference to whether ST was trying to provoke Zorro etc or not.
 
BoroFur said:
You haven't thought or looked very hard then. There's one on this thread and Zorro himself isn't as innocent as he might portray himself to be.
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It’s the fact that it’s an op and sets to tone for the thread. It’s deliberately provocative

The other person looks like a troll for me so everytime he’s tried to engage in the past he seems to be ignored

It’s not about the breach itself, it’s about the max supporters
 
BoroFur said:
You haven't thought or looked very hard then. There's one on this thread and Zorro himself isn't as innocent as he might portray himself to be.
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You mean the GOATilton post? I ignored that because I assumed he was either taking the mick or he's an absolute clown, I don't think ST is either of those.
 
Anyway, as much as you all think I love threads being about me, lets stop the sniping and return to the topic.

What do we think the punishment will be? I've heard about the loss of aero testing tokens as mentioned above. I don't think that's fair. it means they've benefited from the cheating. Although rugby had similar, Saracens were financially doping for years. They didn't get any of their illegally won titles removed either. Although they did get a swingeing punishment. Imagine if Red Bull were made to compete in F2?
 
SmallTown said:
Anyway, as much as you all think I love threads being about me, lets stop the sniping and return to the topic.

What do we think the punishment will be? I've heard about the loss of aero testing tokens as mentioned above. I don't think that's fair. it means they've benefited from the cheating. Although rugby had similar, Saracens were financially doping for years. They didn't get any of their illegally won titles removed either. Although they did get a swingeing punishment. Imagine if Red Bull were made to compete in F2?
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The issue here is that the overspend on development i.e. design, engineering, procurement and manufacture is effectively 'baked-in' to that car unless and until there is a significant change in regulations.

You could argue that it doesn't really matter for 2022 because Mercedes produced a wretched car and Ferrari have been awful off track.

However, nobody knows what will happen in 2023 so the punishment (whatever that is) must impact on Red Bull for next season.
 
BoroFur said:
The issue here is that the overspend on development i.e. design, engineering, procurement and manufacture is effectively 'baked-in' to that car unless and until there is a significant change in regulations.

You could argue that it doesn't really matter for 2022 because Mercedes produced a wretched car and Ferrari have been awful off track.

However, nobody knows what will happen in 2023 so the punishment (whatever that is) must impact on Red Bull for next season.
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Good point. I just think, given all the rule changes this year, it's given RBR a massive head start. 2023 cars are likely to be an iteration of this years car. Only Ferrari and Red Bull got it right in the beginning: One of those by spending more than allowed on development and the other ruining their good start with terrible tactics.
 
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