Can we keep Hackney?

[Colgates_shaving_foam]

But you do understand that they'd have left for nothing if we didn't sell them for those fees? Would that have felt better because we'd got one more season from them, even if it didn't result in promotion? Not to mention any morale issues with the squad, with everyone knowing they'd leave.

It's not guaranteed that they would have left for nothing.

It's a gamble, if we forced their hand then they may well have signed a new contract with us. There is a big risk for the player as well. What if they get a big injury in the final year?

We will never know what would have happened. What I am saying is that I think it would have been worth the risk in keeping them.

 

[festa5]

If Hackney continues his rate of progression, he will be sold next summer, no doubt about it, a lower half PL team will buy him, he will want to go and play PL football, probably treble his wages, all this he's local lad is complete nonsense, Hackney will professionally do whats best for him. Only reason he will stay is if Boro get promoted, Boro won't sell then as his value will go up having played PL football.
We have to accept that evry Boro player has a for sale sign round their necks, that's the model now, they'll be sold if the timing & fee is right for Boro. For what it's worth Hackney would go for £15m upfront with add ons maybe making it £20m that's the top fee would be paid for a midfield player (not high in goals or assists) who's never played in the PL. Talk of £30m is ridiculous

Alex Scott went for £20m + £5m in add ons.

 

[atypical_boro]

It's a gamble, if we forced their hand then they may well have signed a new contract with us. There is a big risk for the player as well. What if they get a big injury in the final year?

We will never know what would have happened. What I am saying is that I think it would have been worth the risk in keeping them.

I think you've overestimating the power we had. Players will worry about and want to avoid injuries wherever they are, whether they stay or go.

 

[sparkins]

If Hackney continues his rate of progression, he will be sold next summer, no doubt about it, a lower half PL team will buy him, he will want to go and play PL football, probably treble his wages, all this he's local lad is complete nonsense, Hackney will professionally do whats best for him. Only reason he will stay is if Boro get promoted, Boro won't sell then as his value will go up having played PL football.
We have to accept that evry Boro player has a for sale sign round their necks, that's the model now, they'll be sold if the timing & fee is right for Boro. For what it's worth Hackney would go for £15m upfront with add ons maybe making it £20m that's the top fee would be paid for a midfield player (not high in goals or assists) who's never played in the PL. Talk of £30m is ridiculous

It is hard to find comparable transfers, - James Maddison from Norwich to Leicester maybe? Leicester paid around 22m rising to 24m for him from Norwich in 2018 when he was an U21 international - given inflation of transfer fees over the past couple of years, I would put Hackney in the same bracket (Maddison scored more goals you could argue)

 

[Malaguena]

Tomlin Tav and chuba. Dreadful deals for the club. Absolutely dreadful.

All with contracts running into the last year, all making it known they wouldn't sign another one

 

[WilliamMunny]

Just for future reference anything I post is my opinion. Saves me having to write IMHO after every post. If something is an unassailable fact, I'll be sure to write FACT.

Fair enough, but maybe you might consider adding some context to your opinion. In effect all you have done is said they were **** because they were ****.

I've put forward reasons why they weren't **** deals, but I'd be happy to reconsider if you can put forward any cogent argument why selling Tomlin was a **** deal for the Boro.

 

[atypical_boro]

Fair enough, but maybe you might consider adding some context to your opinion. In effect all you have done is said they were **** because they were ****.

I've put forward reasons why they weren't **** deals, but I'd be happy to reconsider if you can put forward any cogent argument why selling Tomlin was a **** deal for the Boro.

TBH I didn't know if Tomlin had said he wouldn't sign another deal, but regardless of the fee, him leaving was the last time I've felt genuinely sad about a Boro player leaving.

 

[Paulh10]

While he is young and developing stay with us for now learn under Carrick.But being realistic his talent belongs in the premier League so won't be here to long if we don't get promotion if we do sell it's got to be 25m plus.

 

[Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret]

Fair enough, but maybe you might consider adding some context to your opinion. In effect all you have done is said they were **** because they were ****.

I've put forward reasons why they weren't **** deals, but I'd be happy to reconsider if you can put forward any cogent argument why selling Tomlin was a **** deal for the Boro.

Tomlin was a **** deal because he was a very good player for us and we sold him for half a fletcher. I don't think a lot of context is needed.

Similarly akpom scored more for us than anyone since 1958 and he went for two thirds of a Britt. Again not much context needed.

If you sell good players for little money it's a **** deal. If you buy **** players for a lot of money. It's a bad deal. Perfectly cogent argument there.

 

[Frozen Horse]

Take chuba as an example.

His worth to us would be far greater than 12 million if he got us promoted. The 12 mill fee was not adequate compensation for the loss of such a key player, I felt the same about tav.

Would you have paid Ajax £12million to loan Chuba back for 1 season if they had given us the choice?

I don't see any significant difference between doing that, and keeping him for one season and letting him leave for free at the end.

As for Hackney, the only way he doesn't end up in the PL is if his current form doesn't continue. Hopefully that's with us, but if we don't go up this season or next, I think he'll move on.

 

[WilliamMunny]

Tomlin was a **** deal because he was a very good player for us and we sold him for half a fletcher. I don't think a lot of context is needed.

Similarly akpom scored more for us than anyone since 1958 and he went for two thirds of a Britt. Again not much context needed.

If you sell good players for little money it's a **** deal. If you buy **** players for a lot of money. It's a bad deal. Perfectly cogent argument there.

Tomlin was decent at his best, but he did nothing in the playoff final and we didn't miss him one iota the following season when we were promoted. He couldn't get in the Bournemouth team and was loaned back to the Championship in the January transfer window but we didn't show any interest in him then as far as I'm aware. He subsequently signed for Bristol City for less than Bournemouth paid for him 12 months earlier. That was a Bristol City team that finished 18th in the Championship and they went on to finish 17th the following season after signing Tomlin. He was then transferred to Cardiff after 1 season before they shipped him out on loan to Forest in January of the same season. So not only did we not miss him, his value only went down after we sold him and he never had any real success anywhere else.

If you want to ignore all of the above because we overpaid for Fletcher, that's your prerogative. But I cannot for the life of me comprehend how the sale of Tomlin still irks anyone after everything that has since passed.

 

[Colgates_shaving_foam]

Would you have paid Ajax £12million to loan Chuba back for 1 season if they had given us the choice?

I don't see any significant difference between doing that, and keeping him for one season and letting him leave for free at the end.

We would then presumably be 12 mill down on FFP as we couldn't spread the loan fee over a few years? That would be a big difference.

Also, people are assuming that Chuba would have left for free, this is not certain at all. He could have signed a new contract or we could have sold him in Jan if we didn't start well.

 

[WilliamMunny]

Would you have paid Ajax £12million to loan Chuba back for 1 season if they had given us the choice?

I don't see any significant difference between doing that, and keeping him for one season and letting him leave for free at the end.

That's a great point FH.

 

[B_G]

Tomlin was a **** deal because he was a very good player for us and we sold him for half a fletcher. I don't think a lot of context is needed.

Similarly akpom scored more for us than anyone since 1958 and he went for two thirds of a Britt. Again not much context needed.

If you sell good players for little money it's a **** deal. If you buy **** players for a lot of money. It's a bad deal. Perfectly cogent argument there.

Fletcher being a terrible signing doesn't mean Tomlin was a **** sale. We spunked millions and millions on **** players beween 2017 and 2019.

Adomah was worse sale than Tomlin in my opinion. If one of them was going to cut it in the PL and offer us something it was Adomah. And we sold him for less than Tomlin. Tomlin would never have done it in the PL.

 

[Frozen Horse]

We would then presumably be 12 mill down on FFP as we couldn't spread the loan fee over a few years? That would be a big difference.

Also, people are assuming that Chuba would have left for free, this is not certain at all. He could have signed a new contract or we could have sold him in Jan if we didn't start well.

I assume that if he were willing to sign a new contract, he'd have done it this Summer. He was offered one, but knew he could get better abroad. Denying him that opportunity would hardly improve his disposition towards the club.

£12 million now or £3 million in January? The fee drops sharply the closer you get to the end of the contract.

Regardless of FFP, would you consider a £12m loan fee fair value for a year of CHuba's career?

 

[Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret]

I disagree. I think Tomlin was a cracking player. Downing who cost twice as much was tried in his role, was poor and moved wide left. We played a loaner from Birmingham there who was ok. The position didn't get fixed until we got Ramirez. The sale of Tomlin does not "irk" me anymore. You asked for three players I gave you them.

 

[Morton94]

I think the club is slowly learning how to maximise their earnings from their assets in the past few years.
We made profit on Adama, Gibson sold for a big fee, profit on Bamford. Spence signed for nothing looked hopeless the year we loaned him out and we ended up with a big fee, Tav had a year left on his deal and wanted the move and we got a big fee for a player we nurtured and Chuba was out of contract and wanted to go elsewhere, the year before we'd have let him go for free and he left for a big profit, excellent buisness at the time in my eyes and nothing has changed it.
We helped Giles, Ramsey and Archer go for massive fees to. Akpoms transfer fee essentially covered our entire summer.

To me we'll keep Hackney for this entire season at least. I'm gonna make a bold prediction that hackney will bypass the £20millions and be our first £30million sale. Excellent performances in the championship + England u21 international. Hopefully we get to the premier league with him rather than without him.

I genuinely believe RVDB, Rodgers, Forss, Silvera amongst others will leave for big profits eventually. I'll own that oppinion and live or die on that sword. I've always maintained we're heading in the right direction with our recruitment, I know alot of fans don't have the patience but I'm willing to have patience

 

[Colgates_shaving_foam]

I assume that if he were willing to sign a new contract, he'd have done it this Summer. He was offered one, but knew he could get better abroad. Denying him that opportunity would hardly improve his disposition towards the club.

£12 million now or £3 million in January? The fee drops sharply the closer you get to the end of the contract.

Regardless of FFP, would you consider a £12m loan fee fair value for a year of CHuba's career?

unfortunately we cannot discount FFP.

We might have got maybe 6 to 8 mill in Jan for him or he might have signed a new contract when he realised we were playing hard ball and he didn't want to risk injury without the security of a long term deal.

Football finances are not like a household budget with fixed income. By keeping chuba we would have been in a better position to grow the club and increase revenue via promotion. 3 or 4 mill per year over the next 3 or 4 years seems like a poor compensation for the loss of such a great player for us.

 

[Frozen Horse]

But would you consider it good value? It's a hypothetical question; It's not even as if Ajax have given us the opportunity to do this, and if we can ignore that, we can ignore FFP implications.

It's a question about value; the first question the club has to ask itself, so it's only fair we ask it of ourselves when discussing the decision.

 

[Colgates_shaving_foam]

But would you consider it good value? It's a hypothetical question, so we can ignore the technicalities of FFP.

It's a question about value; the first question the club has to ask itself, so it's only fair we ask it of ourselves when discussing the decision.

In that case then, in this hypothetical world we have paid 12 mill to loan Akpom, he is the top scorer and we are 2nd in the league looking odds on for auto promotion.

Looking like a great deal.