Brexit barriers and the young: a new deal is needed

indeedido said:
I am sure we will join SM again in time.
An Economic Union is ultimately beneficial and inevitable.
A Political one thankfully is now less likely.
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I'm sure we'll wish to join the SM in time. I'm less confident they'll have us.
 
I know from my Eastern European relatives, some UK employers were totally unethical in some of their employment practicies. The chief one was charging high rents, high energy charges to workers who could not speak English. They also liked employing young people (under 25) as they did not have the pay the full adult minimum wage rate - you had to be 25 to get the full rate for many years. When people from Eastern Europe discovered what was happening they abadonned those employers.

I was told a lot of Eastern European trained health workers were not taken on by the NHS, because their English Language skills were judged not good enough, workers from India seemed to be preferred.
 
indeedido said:
I am sure we will join SM again in time.
An Economic Union is ultimately beneficial and inevitable.
A Political one thankfully is now less likely.
Click to expand...
We didn't vote to leave the single market that's the thing. The right wing nutters wouldn't have got the vote if they'd been honest about that.
We were in the single market before we joined the eu proper so we should have gone back to that position.
 
LaPennaBianca said:
All those skilled workers on seasonal work visas.

Also, the wage for a 'skilled worker' visa is £26,200 p.a. or £10.75 an hour. That is less than Pret pay.

Wage stagnation is caused by greedy employers, not EU immigration.
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Because they can get away with it. Why pay more for staff if you have a virtual unlimited supply of willing employees?
 
Nano said:
It's probably set at that level for nurses. If we didn't have such a shortage or we paid them properly it would be higher.

Also, your maths is way off or you haven't read the requirements properly.

£26.2k is £12.59 per hour for 40 hrs a week or £13.44 for 37.5 hours. (£12.59 x 40hrs x 52 weeks).

£10.75 per hour is only £22,360.

The requirements are £26.2k or £10.75 if you meet certain criteria:
> the job is in a shortage occupation
> under 26, studying or a recent graduate, or in professional training
> have a science, technology, engineering or maths (STEM) PhD level qualification that’s relevant to your job (if you have a relevant PhD level qualification in any other subject your salary must be at least £23,580)
> have a postdoctoral position in science or higher education

Wage stagnation is caused by supply and demand. If someone is willing to do the job for minimum wage then that is what employers will pay. If they can get away with paying minimum wage and charging rent for on-site accommodation of 6 to a shipping crate and selling food to employees via the on-site shop to recoup most of the salary then employers will do that as well.

I'm not going to argue with you that rates are low or that people aren't paid enough. I fully agree with that, 100%. One of the problems is that the lowest wages never rising gives no incentives for higher wages to rise which keeps everyone's wages down. If you could get paid the same for doing an unskilled job as one you had to train and get experience for then why would anyone choose to spend time, money and effort doing it? Keeping wages low at the bottom affects everyone. Supply and demand sees wages rising when supply of labour is low. That in turn pushes wages up further up the chain to retain staff.
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Spot on chap.
(y)
 
thewanderer said:
Because they can get away with it. Why pay more for staff if you have a virtual unlimited supply of willing employees?
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Agree. With restrictions on entering Brand GB, places like Lincolnshire cant get workers to do the back-breaking agricultural jobs.
British agriculture received £2,400,000,000 subsidy from the Common Agricultural Policy [EU], which the Government have replaced [post-brexit] with a system which lasts until the end of this Parliament. The future sees a huge cut in subsidy to British Agriculture which is one of the least profitable industries in our country.
What a way to balls up a country!

deframedia.blog.gov.uk

Coverage of payments to farmers following the UK's exit from the EU - Defra in the media

Updates from Defra
deframedia.blog.gov.uk deframedia.blog.gov.uk
www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk

Agriculture subsidies after Brexit | Institute for Government

Having left the EU, the UK is now free to design its own agricultural policy to replace the EU’s Common Agricultural Policy (CAP).
www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk
www.gov.uk

Funding for farmers, growers and land managers

Apply for grants and other funding to increase productivity, manage your land to benefit the environment and support your agricultural business.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

UK Gov. Archives. What is / was CAP:
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cabinet Papers - The National Archives

History through the eyes of the British Cabinet. For advice on searching our catalogue for Cabinet papers please read our guide to Cabinet and its committees.
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
 
Nano said:
Wage stagnation is caused by supply and demand.
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In the public sector salaries have been delibrately kept stagnant by government policy. You can't blame that on the EU.

In addition, I know quite a few Polish people. They've told me more than once that UK companies started a massive recruitment drive in Poland once they joined the EU. Big companies knew they could reduce their costs by bringing over skilled people from Poland who would accept lower salaries. Most were skilled people too. I know some brilliant and highly skilled Polish.

Shareholder Value Maximisation is the reason. CEO's of medium to large companies are paid to keep the shares high. They're remuneration is tied to it, so they will consider all ways to cuts costs to increase the profit margin.
 
LaPennaBianca said:
All those skilled workers on seasonal work visas.

Also, the wage for a 'skilled worker' visa is £26,200 p.a. or £10.75 an hour. That is less than Pret pay.

Wage stagnation is caused by greedy employers, not EU immigration.
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This absolutely. We're being told that we have a labour shortage. We know many European workers left due to Brexit, escalating the problem. Why aren't wages keeping up with inflation?
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
This absolutely. We're being told that we have a labour shortage. We know many European workers left due to Brexit, escalating the problem. Why aren't wages keeping up with inflation?
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Exactly. You can make your A-Level supply and demand arguments all day - but my pay packet is worth 15% less than it was in 2016.

Brexit isn't the cause of inflation, but @Nano is presenting it as a panacea to stagnating wages. So where is my pay rise? I've been waiting 7 years.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
This absolutely. We're being told that we have a labour shortage. We know many European workers left due to Brexit, escalating the problem. Why aren't wages keeping up with inflation?
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Because they are taking a risk that they can pressure the government to add exemptions for their industries to allow migrant workers. They daren't risk raising wages in case it sticks. There is no labour shortage. That just means there is a shortage of people willing to do that job for the low wages on offer. Why would you go and work in a field picking fruit when you could do a much easier job indoors and closer to your home. If you want to attract people to come and pick fruit then raise the wages. Repeat for whichever industry that thinks anyone should be desperate to do their horrible jobs for the lowest wage possible.

Nero said:
In the public sector salaries have been delibrately kept stagnant by government policy. You can't blame that on the EU.

In addition, I know quite a few Polish people. They've told me more than once that UK companies started a massive recruitment drive in Poland once they joined the EU. Big companies knew they could reduce their costs by bringing over skilled people from Poland who would accept lower salaries. Most were skilled people too. I know some brilliant and highly skilled Polish.

Shareholder Value Maximisation is the reason. CEO's of medium to large companies are paid to keep the shares high. They're remuneration is tied to it, so they will consider all ways to cuts costs to increase the profit margin.
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Yes, that is one of those do as i say, not what I do Tory policies where the free market is king unless it is affecting them. Unfortunately, for most public sector jobs the skills aren't transferable. If you've trained to be a nurse/doctor/AHP etc then your options are to take what is given, leave the country or leave the sector altogether. The government don't care about the performances or longevity of public services so will allow the sector to just wither away. They know that whatever they pay the majority of people will just accept it because they don't want to emigrate or leave the sector which is why they can get away with underpaying.

LaPennaBianca said:
Exactly. You can make your A-Level supply and demand arguments all day - but my pay packet is worth 15% less than it was in 2016.

Brexit isn't the cause of inflation, but @Nano is presenting it as a panacea to stagnating wages. So where is my pay rise? I've been waiting 7 years.
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This is a Tory problem, not a Brexit one. 12 years of Tory rule and no Brexit would have also seen your pay decline unless you were one of the 1% that the Tory's care about getting richer.
 
Nano said:
This is a Tory problem, not a Brexit one. 12 years of Tory rule and no Brexit would have also seen your pay decline unless you were one of the 1% that the Tory's care about getting richer.
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Yes. And Brexit is a Tory project, implemented by the Tory party to suit Tory ends. Anyone that thought it was a means to turn the UK into a high wage economy clearly wasn't paying attention to who campaigned for it and who was in charge of it.
 
Just reading the latest damning report on the economy post Brexit. Is there anybody benefitting from what seems ever more like massive self harm to everybody who isn't a currency trader or hedge fund manager/owner?

Whats the view of those who voted for it? Dont care still?

IMG_2827.jpeg
 
People who work in business generally knew that it was a bad idea. The problem is that most of the general public and especially those who are no longer working have no idea how the world works.

How many people who aren't involved in import/export businesses know that there are new checks on imports due to be made?
 
When are the young going to become politically active?

When they do things will change. They'll have representation. At the moment the politically active are the oldies who are looking for the youngsters to step forward. Very few do, particularly of a left wing persuasion.

There's quite a few young nest featherers with only themselves in mind stepping forward for the Tories.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
When are the young going to become politically active?

When they do things will change. They'll have representation. At the moment the politically active are the oldies who are looking for the youngsters to step forward. Very few do, particularly of a left wing persuasion.

There's quite a few young nest featherers with only themselves in mind stepping forward for the Tories.
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A useful read on those questions:



https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-tories-are-heading-for-electoral-evisceration/
 
If we ever get freedom of movement back it'll be that bad in the UK that there'll be an exodus of people going to the EU to try and earn money to send home to their families. There'll be a role reversal with EU people complaining about Brits coming over and working cheap and taking their jobs.
 
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