Booing the Ramadan drinks break

[BobendBert]

Unbendable

Ah I see.

That’s not true. I’m reconsidering based on what you and Scrote have said. I’m thinking it through, especially Scrote’s linked article. It’s interesting. I’m never entrenched in anything. Nobody learns that way.

 

[BobendBert]

Sure there is racism and booing the knee is horrific in my opinion but as many people have stated across the 15 pages of arguments, including me, is that in this instance most people there were unaware that the break was for ramadan. Any booing ( which was confined to a small minority of idiots) was aimed at the misunderstanding of what was going on. A Burnley player went down, a few expressed frustration and wondered what was happening. Yes the Club should have announced what was going on but didn't. I was perfectly happy that a drinks break was taken for this reason - if only I knew.

There was racist booing this time I’m afraid. Sure a proportion may have been because they didn’t know but then the comments that accompanied some of the booing were explicitly racist. Not everyone but a vocal minority.

 

[Glover_elbow]

I

Then tell me where. I’m always willing to learn and apologise.



Not what I said. The opposite actually. I said that they can get those instructions onto the field without needing a break. Same for both teams so it then boils down to which manager is better. All fair.

I’m a grassroots coach now. I have no idea what rule would stop me giving as many instructions as I want to.


Me too. I don’t agree, but Scrote’s post has given me pause for thought. As have yours. I don’t understand the personal undertone of some of your posts but tmaybe that’s just me.


It’s actually a prediction based on mathematical formula that isn’t ever 100% accurate.

Incidently did you see in the second half someone from the Burnley bench walk all the way round to their keeper in front of the north stand when we were having our best spell in the second half. They made a tatical change and got the winning goal with 10 mins of the instruction. Surely thats not allowed

 

[BobendBert]

I

Incidently did you see in the second half someone from the Burnley bench walk all the way round to their keeper in front of the north stand when we were having our best spell in the second half. They made a tatical change and got the winning goal with 10 mins of the instruction. Surely thats not allowed

I don’t think it is No. I think the rule is to stay within the technical area. I didn’t notice that but it’s definitely against the rules.

 

[Cardiffdaffs]

I

Incidently did you see in the second half someone from the Burnley bench walk all the way round to their keeper in front of the north stand when we were having our best spell in the second half. They made a tatical change and got the winning goal with 10 mins of the instruction. Surely thats not allowed

No and it happens in every game. Their keeper took a tactical injury break near the end and in the meantime there were a plethora of instructions going out from their bench

 

[Scrote]

It’s the practicalities of the amount of info you can give from the side of the pitch. You can talk individuals, you can’t talk units for a start. You might have good access to talk to the LB but the RB has no idea what you are saying. This is as true at grass roots as at pro level.

I remember a pundit (Alan Shearer possibly) having a meltdown on MOTD a couple of years ago when a team (I think Newcastle) conceded a goal after a substitute came on and didn't pass on the instructions he was supposed to straight away. I'd assume that much of this is pre-arranged in terms of who does what based on who goes off and who comes on. The idea that it's easy to get instructions across is blown out of the water with just that one example.

 

[TeaCider]

Wesley Fofana: Leicester defender thanks Premier League after being allowed to break Ramadan fast mid-game

As part of Ramadan, Muslims fast during daylight hours, making it difficult for footballers to maintain energy levels; Leicesters clash with Crystal Palace on Monday night took place as the sun set, and Wesley Fofana and Cheikhou Kouyate were permitted to break their fast mid-game

www.google.com

Just a reminder that this was the incident that ultimately sparked the move to make it standard to allow referees to stop play to allow fasts to be broken if requested.

Heartwarming stuff.

 

[BobendBert]

I remember a pundit (Alan Shearer possibly) having a meltdown on MOTD a couple of years ago when a team (I think Newcastle) conceded a goal after a substitute came on and didn't pass on the instructions he was supposed to straight away. I'd assume that much of this is pre-arranged in terms of who does what based on who goes off and who comes on. The idea that it's easy to get instructions across is blown out of the water with just that one example.

Not really. I sit behind the dug outs and the instructions are being passed almost constantly. Usually to the full back who then passes it to the central midfielder and it quickly spreads through the team. The fact that somebody failed to do that and that shearer had a meltdown probably tells you how easy it should be to get the instructions on the pitch.

 

[Cardiffdaffs]

There was racist booing this time I’m afraid. Sure a proportion may have been because they didn’t know but then the comments that accompanied some of the booing were explicitly racist. Not everyone but a vocal minority.

What comments? Disgraceful from these individuals but a very small minority all the same and they should be found and dealt with. Surely there is no argument there and as said on the "Booing the knee" threads over the past weeks - said time and time and time again.

 

[BobendBert]

A question I asked above which has got lost was what if it was a medical break? My take here is that it’s the religious element that is problematic. Nobody seems bothered by the drunks breaks in hot weather. So what if there were let’s say several asthmatics on each side and they asked for an ‘inhaler break’ midway through each half?

 

[BobendBert]

What comments? Disgraceful from these individuals but a very small minority all the same and they should be found and dealt with. Surely there is no argument there and as said on the "Booing the knee" threads over the past weeks - said time and time and time again.

Comments mentioned early on in this thread. I won’t repeat them but I heard some unsavoury things too.

But yeah I think there’s 100% consensus on that issue here. The rest of the 15 or is pages has been more about whether the drinks break should happen at all.

 

[TeaCider]

There were people behind me complaining that "the game's gone for allowing this" whilst discussing it being for Ramadan.

They didn't boo, to be fair, but they were complaining and they were aware what the break was for.

The boos from elsewhere were loud and clear from where I was sat, though I'll admit that I was listening out for them as I was expecting there to be some.

 

[Randy]

Just playing devils advocate here - if the same players who needed their break (again, I will reiterate my stance that I care neither way - didn't bother me one little bit) were to use their religion to justify intolerance of homosexuals or some other divisive in intolerant belief (many religions have these views), how much would you want religion in football then?

Good question.
Especially now men's football is on the precipice of more and more players feeling it's the time for them to come out.

 

[Scrote]

Wesley Fofana: Leicester defender thanks Premier League after being allowed to break Ramadan fast mid-game

As part of Ramadan, Muslims fast during daylight hours, making it difficult for footballers to maintain energy levels; Leicesters clash with Crystal Palace on Monday night took place as the sun set, and Wesley Fofana and Cheikhou Kouyate were permitted to break their fast mid-game

www.google.com

Just a reminder that this was the incident that ultimately sparked the move to make it standard to allow referees to stop play to allow fasts to be broken if requested.

Heartwarming stuff.

But surely that (and the comment from Rodgers about the WBA substitution) just begs the question as to why managers are deliberately fielding weakened teams and risking injury to players that aren't at full fitness.

Players also take energy packs and drinks when there are breaks for injury and during substitutions. Why do we need a special break if it isn't just performative?

A question I asked above which has got lost was what if it was a medical break? My take here is that it’s the religious element that is problematic. Nobody seems bothered by the drunks breaks in hot weather. So what if there were let’s say several asthmatics on each side and they asked for an ‘inhaler break’ midway through each half?

I'd say no. Again, the manager makes a choice by picking the player. If there is an asthmatic in the team and he needs his inhaler then it should be up to the player to manage that. The game shouldn't be stopped at a pre-arranged time.

The hot weather drinks breaks aren't ideal as their requirement is a clear indication that you're putting players in a physiological extreme that they shouldn't be expected to suffer.

The fact that they are sometimes needed is a reflection of the low regard the governing bodies have for the players. When England were dumped out of the 2014 World Cup by Uruguay, one of the problems they had was the exhaustion from the game against Italy in Manaus a few days previously. That game should never have been held in that stadium at that time. Having a drinks break might have helped but again, it's a solution to a problem that shouldn't exist.

 

[BoroMart]

Not really. I sit behind the dug outs and the instructions are being passed almost constantly. Usually to the full back who then passes it to the central midfielder and it quickly spreads through the team. The fact that somebody failed to do that and that shearer had a meltdown probably tells you how easy it should be to get the instructions on the pitch.

Nobody argues that NO instructions are passed, the argument is that it limits the complexity of instructions. It does, second hand knowledge or third hand is always open to the Chinese whisper effect, plus you can’t communicate two way by passing info to the left back, who passes to the CB then all the way to the RB. It’s an inefficient form of communication.

So managers simplify and keep the more complex stuff until half time…or in this case the Ramadan break. That information is often effective otherwise they wouldn’t bother.

 

[BobendBert]

Nobody argues that instructions aren’t passed, but that it limits the complexity of instructions. It does, second hand knowledge or third hand is always open to the Chinese whisper effect, plus you can’t communicate two way by passing info to the left back, who passes to the CB then all the way to the RB. It’s an inefficient form of communication.

So managers simplify and keep the more complex stuff until half time…or in this case the Ramadan break. That information is often effective otherwise they wouldn’t bother.

But presumably you accept that each manager has the same opportunity?

 

[BoroMart]

But presumably you accept that each manager has the same opportunity?

Agreed, but that there is only one valid point in a match in the laws of the game where the managers get to discuss in detail. This is changing the rules. A team who are on top will see this opportunity as a negative, while a team struggling to contain will see it as a positive opportunity to regroup, so it depends on the momentum of the game, rather than a blanket “it’s fair for everyone” view.

 

[BobendBert]

Agreed, but that there is only one valid point in a match in the laws of the game where the managers get to discuss in detail. This is changing the rules. A team who are on top will see this opportunity as a negative, while a team struggling to contain will see it as a positive opportunity to regroup, so it depends on the momentum of the game, rather than a blanket “it’s fair for everyone” view.

Ok so what if a drinks station was set up behind each goal and at 25 mins each team went behind their respective goal to break the fast and the managers/coaches weren’t allowed to be there. Would that solve that problem?

 

[Scrote]

Ok so what if a drinks station was set up behind each goal and at 25 mins each team went behind their respective goal to break the fast and the managers/coaches weren’t allowed to be there. Would that solve that problem?

No it doesn't solve anything. It's a convoluted solution to a problem that doesn't really exist.

Players can, and do, take on fluids and energy packs throughout the game. Some even carry them in their socks for short periods of time. They aren't stopping to eat a burger.

 

[TeessideCleveland]

Because I really dislike people who label people "racist" and become extremely judgemental of people who have different beliefs to their own. They often shout loudest about other people who they see as intolerant etc yet are equally intolerant themselves of any alternative views. Essentially, they scream about people not respecting their beliefs when really they hate that people just won't agree with them.

They accuse and label people of things in the hope they just stop arguing and see what they shout as "victory" but then avoid answering questions that may break the chain of their perceived "logic".

I'm afraid (as several have pointed out in this thread) that you are one of the least tolerant in here although you seem to see yourself as more virtuous so will it will likely be pointless anyway. The fact that your last post avoided answering a worthwhile question in favour of questioning why you be questioned at all suggests a lot about your mentality.

I will leave it here, anyway. I just hope you are able to see that people won't have the same beliefs as you and aren't "racist" as you love to label people when you are struggling with reasoned debate.

I had no idea the water break was about to happen. The bloke - don't know who as he was behind me somewhere - who chose to boo as loudly as they could as soon as the players approached the touchline clearly DID know what it was about. That was when I actually knew what the break was for - because of his racism