Banning the Palestinian flag
- Thread starter GibbosEmpire
- Start date
BoroMart
Well-known member
Having watched that, I can only say that western leaders are making this worse by refusing to call for an end to the Israeli armed forces attacks on civilian populations in Gaza and not pushing for the occupied territories to be returned as a peaceful solution.
As it states the IRA were equally as determined to drive all Brits out of all of Ireland. But in the end diplomacy giving a porous Ireland-N Ireland border allowing a sense of unity was the key to losing the IRA its support and ultimately a cessation to armed conflict. The people in Gaza aren't old enough to remember pre 1967, the return of those borders will feel a huge win to 90% of people on that side. The 10% that just want all Israeli's dead will not garner any further support.
As it states the IRA were equally as determined to drive all Brits out of all of Ireland. But in the end diplomacy giving a porous Ireland-N Ireland border allowing a sense of unity was the key to losing the IRA its support and ultimately a cessation to armed conflict. The people in Gaza aren't old enough to remember pre 1967, the return of those borders will feel a huge win to 90% of people on that side. The 10% that just want all Israeli's dead will not garner any further support.
FishofContemplation
Well-known member
Not quite. They don’t like it when it’s done by people wearing uniforms of countries we don’t like. Has to be uniforms of people our politicians wish to align with.
GibbosEmpire
Well-known member
I follow Shaun King on instagram, its harrowing but he's showing footage of what's happening, instagram are threatening to ban him.
Thornaby90
Well-known member
Can we ban the Ukrainian flag too?
NYboro
Well-known member
Should definitely ban the Israeli flag
BlindBoyGrunt
Well-known member
Historically the Arabs in that part of the world were fine with the Jews. They lived side by side.
When the Romans drove the Jews out of Jerusalem the Caliph Umar invited them to return to Jerusalem after it came into Muslim hands.
When the Crusaders drove Muslims and Jews out of Jerusalem Sultan Saladin invited Jews to return when the Muslims regained control.
When Jews were persecuted in Europe, In Palestine they were welcomed by the local Muslims.
Zionism is not Judaism and many Jews inside and outside of Israel are critical of the Israeli state.
When the Romans drove the Jews out of Jerusalem the Caliph Umar invited them to return to Jerusalem after it came into Muslim hands.
When the Crusaders drove Muslims and Jews out of Jerusalem Sultan Saladin invited Jews to return when the Muslims regained control.
When Jews were persecuted in Europe, In Palestine they were welcomed by the local Muslims.
Zionism is not Judaism and many Jews inside and outside of Israel are critical of the Israeli state.
The death of civilians is always tragic. However I have little sympathy for the terrorists that surround Israel. The history is long and complex, and Israel has done wrong at times, but it has also bent over backwards on numerous occasions to accommodate their demands, and the terrorists have consistently thrown concessions back in their faces, then immediately followed up with violence against civilians. The idea that any of these terrorists want peace simply does not fit with the evidence. They do not want peace, and they could not have been clearer about that in what they have said and done. They have been very clear about what they want, which is the total destruction of Israel and the Jewish people. Hamas has founding documents that state their genocidal aims. I am sick of the spineless BBC failing to call them what they are. Genocide is the end game for Hamas, who have no more 'political' legitimacy than Isis, or Hitler. The level of depravity of the attacks on Israel this month demonstrate how evil they are.
For those who are interested, some history:
The land supposedly in question has been Israeli since Moses wandered in there 1300 years before the birth of Christ. If you look at the ancient maps, practically the whole territory is divided between the Kingdom of Israel and the Davidic Kingdom of Judah, i.e. all the twelve tribes of Israel. The Jews were invaded and exiled by Assyrians and Babylonians then returned around 500BC when they rebuilt the temple for the first time. Then they were invaded by the Romans. The Jews rebelled about 130AD. The name 'Palestine' didn't exist until then, 1200 years after the Jewish Kingdoms were established, and was named 'Palestine' by the Romans as an insult to Jews precisely because the land was considered to be Jewish ancestral land. Note that Islam hasn't even been founded yet, and won't be founded until 636AD which is about when Arabs first invade and settle in Israel. In 1099 - 1291 the Crusaders take the land. Then Muslims rule for about 200 years. They are ousted by the Ottomans in the early 1500's who rule until the end of WW1. A large Jewish population remains in Israel throughout this time, with many also being exiled at various points. So at worst, the Jews have an equal claim on their own land. So there's that.
Now the modern history...because of anti-semitism after WW1, it's decided that the Jews really need a homeland. They are promised all of modern Israel and modern Jordan by the (British) Balfour declaration. Meanwhile there are large Arab pogroms of Jews in Jerusalem, (yes, Hitler didn't invent them), for praying at the Western wall. Which their ancestors built. More anti-Jewish riots, murders and pogroms for a decade, until the Brits have had enough and create a partitioned state in 1937 to appease the constant Arab anti-semitism and violence. By 1939 millions of Jews want to move home because of rampant anti-semitism in Europe, but the Brits restrict it because of tensions with the Arabs.
WW2. Arab leaders meet with Hitler to seek and endorse 'the final solution'. Post WW2, and 9 million exterminated Jews later, the Brits want out and the UN takes over and partitions 'Palestine' offering the Jews not much (i.e. the Negev desert and a bit more land) as Jerusalem and most of the surrounding areas are internationally controlled. The Jews accept, but the Arabs continue to attack and kill them. Israel finally declares independence in 1948. It's founding documents invite Arabs in the area to stay and be equal citizens. All the Arabic states (Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi) around Israel declare war. Yes, we're 4 years out from the holocaust, but they haven't got the memo and remain rabidly racist against the Jewish people. Somehow the Jews retain the small areas that they have, except Jerusalem. The PLO (a terrorist group) is founded shortly afterwards, (presumably named the PLO in order to pretend that a Palestinian state exists and needs to be 'liberated' in much the same way 'the people's democratic Republic of North Korea' is neither for the people, nor democratic, nor a Republic).
1967 and the six day war: All the Arab states around mobilise to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, but Israel sees it coming. They attack first and take the Golan heights, the Sinai desert, the Gaza strip, Judaea, Sumeria and the old city of Jerusalem. UN calls for negotiations. Israel gradually hands parts back, in return the Arabs reiterate their '3 No's'. No peace, No recognition, No negotiations, only the total destruction of Israel is acceptable. 1973 Yom Kippur war: (holiest day in the jewish calendar) Arabs attack again, Israel again defends (and slightly enlarges) it's borders.
1979 Camp David agreement: Israel agrees peace with Egypt in exchange for the Sinai desert being returned to Egypt. Egyptian president is then assassinated for agreeing peace with Israel. 1982 - Jordan kicks out the terrorist PLO into Lebanon who (naturally) start firing rockets at Israel. Israel defends itself, then occupies Lebanon, and again later hands the territory back to the terrorists who continue to attack Israel.
1987-1991 loads more riots and terrorism from 'Palestinians'. HW Bush/Clinton gets Israel to negotiate with mass murdering terrorist Arafat. All Arafat has to do is recognise Israel's right to exist and stop the terrorism. Total bust, more terrorism. 1998: Netinyahu offers concessions including self-governance to the Palestinian areas, just leave Israel alone. But, No, No, No, more terrorism. 2000: Israel offers control of temple mount (built/rebuilt 3 times by Jews over a period of 1500 years before Islam even existed) to Palestine, with recognition Jews can go there, also offers governance of Gaza, Judaea and Sumeria (i.e. a large Palestinian state. But, no, no, no, more terrorism).
2004: Arafat dies and is replaced by Abbas (who wrote his doctoral dissertation on denying the holocaust). The Jews remove Jewish settlements and people from Gaza and hand it to Palestinians who immediately burn it all down, then hold an election where ....SURPRISE....Hamas terrorists are 'elected'. Israel offers Judaea and Sumeria again, but, No, No, No we'll have another war in Gaza instead. An area Israel obviously does not want. Israel shuts it down. And repeat.
Obama era: He tries to cuddle up to Iran. Iran uses Obama's money to spread terrorism all over the middle east (e.g. the proxy war with Saudi in Yemen). As a result Saudi, Egypt, UAE, Bahrain and others start to cooperate with Israel as they are more palatable than Iran.
Trump era: US backs Israel on ownership of Jerusalem/Golan heights etc and supports ties between Israel/Saudi and the Saudi satellites. US removes funding from all the anti-semite groups.
Biden era: Reinstates aid to the anti-semite terrorist groups (Hamas, 15 years in power now remember, continue to use it buy rockets instead of for economic development - Israel still controls the water and power supply (for free) because Hamas cannot be trusted with it). Biden also starts cosying up to Iran again. So big surprise, Hamas is emboldened to attack Israel, yet again.
Throughout all this time, Israel has remained a functioning democracy with equal rights for its residents whether Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Israeli, Palestinian etc. (Oh, except that it doesn't control it's most holy sites of course, although it's claim on them is the most historic).
Any decent person is repulsed by the deaths of innocent civilians that we see in the media, the problem is that being a decent person just does not extend to members of Hamas. They do not care, which is why, even when warned in advance, they have consistently refused to move children out of the line of fire because they see their death as a fair price for some bad publicity for Israel. The bottom line is that if Israel laid its weapons down today it would be annihilated, but if Hamas laid them down, the Palestinians would be left alone to build the decent future Hamas denies them.
Westerners waving Palestinian flags should learn some history.
For those who are interested, some history:
The land supposedly in question has been Israeli since Moses wandered in there 1300 years before the birth of Christ. If you look at the ancient maps, practically the whole territory is divided between the Kingdom of Israel and the Davidic Kingdom of Judah, i.e. all the twelve tribes of Israel. The Jews were invaded and exiled by Assyrians and Babylonians then returned around 500BC when they rebuilt the temple for the first time. Then they were invaded by the Romans. The Jews rebelled about 130AD. The name 'Palestine' didn't exist until then, 1200 years after the Jewish Kingdoms were established, and was named 'Palestine' by the Romans as an insult to Jews precisely because the land was considered to be Jewish ancestral land. Note that Islam hasn't even been founded yet, and won't be founded until 636AD which is about when Arabs first invade and settle in Israel. In 1099 - 1291 the Crusaders take the land. Then Muslims rule for about 200 years. They are ousted by the Ottomans in the early 1500's who rule until the end of WW1. A large Jewish population remains in Israel throughout this time, with many also being exiled at various points. So at worst, the Jews have an equal claim on their own land. So there's that.
Now the modern history...because of anti-semitism after WW1, it's decided that the Jews really need a homeland. They are promised all of modern Israel and modern Jordan by the (British) Balfour declaration. Meanwhile there are large Arab pogroms of Jews in Jerusalem, (yes, Hitler didn't invent them), for praying at the Western wall. Which their ancestors built. More anti-Jewish riots, murders and pogroms for a decade, until the Brits have had enough and create a partitioned state in 1937 to appease the constant Arab anti-semitism and violence. By 1939 millions of Jews want to move home because of rampant anti-semitism in Europe, but the Brits restrict it because of tensions with the Arabs.
WW2. Arab leaders meet with Hitler to seek and endorse 'the final solution'. Post WW2, and 9 million exterminated Jews later, the Brits want out and the UN takes over and partitions 'Palestine' offering the Jews not much (i.e. the Negev desert and a bit more land) as Jerusalem and most of the surrounding areas are internationally controlled. The Jews accept, but the Arabs continue to attack and kill them. Israel finally declares independence in 1948. It's founding documents invite Arabs in the area to stay and be equal citizens. All the Arabic states (Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi) around Israel declare war. Yes, we're 4 years out from the holocaust, but they haven't got the memo and remain rabidly racist against the Jewish people. Somehow the Jews retain the small areas that they have, except Jerusalem. The PLO (a terrorist group) is founded shortly afterwards, (presumably named the PLO in order to pretend that a Palestinian state exists and needs to be 'liberated' in much the same way 'the people's democratic Republic of North Korea' is neither for the people, nor democratic, nor a Republic).
1967 and the six day war: All the Arab states around mobilise to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, but Israel sees it coming. They attack first and take the Golan heights, the Sinai desert, the Gaza strip, Judaea, Sumeria and the old city of Jerusalem. UN calls for negotiations. Israel gradually hands parts back, in return the Arabs reiterate their '3 No's'. No peace, No recognition, No negotiations, only the total destruction of Israel is acceptable. 1973 Yom Kippur war: (holiest day in the jewish calendar) Arabs attack again, Israel again defends (and slightly enlarges) it's borders.
1979 Camp David agreement: Israel agrees peace with Egypt in exchange for the Sinai desert being returned to Egypt. Egyptian president is then assassinated for agreeing peace with Israel. 1982 - Jordan kicks out the terrorist PLO into Lebanon who (naturally) start firing rockets at Israel. Israel defends itself, then occupies Lebanon, and again later hands the territory back to the terrorists who continue to attack Israel.
1987-1991 loads more riots and terrorism from 'Palestinians'. HW Bush/Clinton gets Israel to negotiate with mass murdering terrorist Arafat. All Arafat has to do is recognise Israel's right to exist and stop the terrorism. Total bust, more terrorism. 1998: Netinyahu offers concessions including self-governance to the Palestinian areas, just leave Israel alone. But, No, No, No, more terrorism. 2000: Israel offers control of temple mount (built/rebuilt 3 times by Jews over a period of 1500 years before Islam even existed) to Palestine, with recognition Jews can go there, also offers governance of Gaza, Judaea and Sumeria (i.e. a large Palestinian state. But, no, no, no, more terrorism).
2004: Arafat dies and is replaced by Abbas (who wrote his doctoral dissertation on denying the holocaust). The Jews remove Jewish settlements and people from Gaza and hand it to Palestinians who immediately burn it all down, then hold an election where ....SURPRISE....Hamas terrorists are 'elected'. Israel offers Judaea and Sumeria again, but, No, No, No we'll have another war in Gaza instead. An area Israel obviously does not want. Israel shuts it down. And repeat.
Obama era: He tries to cuddle up to Iran. Iran uses Obama's money to spread terrorism all over the middle east (e.g. the proxy war with Saudi in Yemen). As a result Saudi, Egypt, UAE, Bahrain and others start to cooperate with Israel as they are more palatable than Iran.
Trump era: US backs Israel on ownership of Jerusalem/Golan heights etc and supports ties between Israel/Saudi and the Saudi satellites. US removes funding from all the anti-semite groups.
Biden era: Reinstates aid to the anti-semite terrorist groups (Hamas, 15 years in power now remember, continue to use it buy rockets instead of for economic development - Israel still controls the water and power supply (for free) because Hamas cannot be trusted with it). Biden also starts cosying up to Iran again. So big surprise, Hamas is emboldened to attack Israel, yet again.
Throughout all this time, Israel has remained a functioning democracy with equal rights for its residents whether Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Israeli, Palestinian etc. (Oh, except that it doesn't control it's most holy sites of course, although it's claim on them is the most historic).
Any decent person is repulsed by the deaths of innocent civilians that we see in the media, the problem is that being a decent person just does not extend to members of Hamas. They do not care, which is why, even when warned in advance, they have consistently refused to move children out of the line of fire because they see their death as a fair price for some bad publicity for Israel. The bottom line is that if Israel laid its weapons down today it would be annihilated, but if Hamas laid them down, the Palestinians would be left alone to build the decent future Hamas denies them.
Westerners waving Palestinian flags should learn some history.
Last edited:
BlindBoyGrunt
Well-known member
They just wandered in you think? No, They took the place by force just like everyone else before them, and the land that we gave them was not ours to give. Arabs and Jews lived peacefully side by side until the birth of Zionism.
That's the usual one sided view, did you download it from the Israeli propoganda farm.
Ancestors living somewhere thousands of years ago does not give a person the right to take land of people who have lived there for the past few hundred years. That is basic logic, as you don't understand that, the rest of what you say is clearly hevaly biased.
BoroMart
Well-known member
what concessions? Since the state of Israel was formed, it's been constant land grabbing and apartheid regimes in that land.
Wow, irrelevant on so many levels. Arabs also lived in that land alongside Jews, lets not pretend that it was a single country and ruled by one faith and one genetic creed, that's simply not the reality of it. The (right to live on that) land isn't "supposedly in question", The majority of jewish people left almost 2000 years ago, Most jewish people would need to look back at their 78th great-grandparent to find the ones that left because of the romans. To steal the land off the muslims because their 78th great-grandad got turfed out by romans is a stretch of "rights" that is beyond any normal person. I mean should I demand to turf some Swedes out of their land so that I can live there, purely because some ancient ancestor lived there?
But here we are 56 years later and they haven't handed back 3 huge areas, and in fact have increased the land that they have taken. It's also a huge stretch to say those nations wanted to wipe the Jews off the map, they wanted arabic people who had their land and property taken and their rights removed to have freedom again. There are always two sides to the story. Yes Israel felt threatened and retaliated o a brewing invasion, but it is equally true that Paletstinians had been screwed over badly and were suffering.
This is a ludicrous take straight from the republican and tory play book. The idea that Trump is some tough guy and Obama a push over is nonsense.
Agreed, yet here we are, you've talked about rockets fired at Israel and how amazingly well israel have behaved, and how civilised they are, and not once mentioned the civilian population of palestine 99% of which have never fired a rocket or held a gun, yet 30 of them have been killed by israelis for every israeli that has died at the hands of Hamas. That's before you look at the collateral damage caused by short life spans of living in destitution in an apartheid state.
Simply isn't true, Palestinians would be subject to apartheid controls, lack of land, control of basic human resources impinging on their rights.
I've read every word of your post and I can see a prejudiced, xenophobic pile of word salad. Painting people with browner skin and a religion you don't like as war mongering, uncontrollable, non-negotiating. People like you pushing this line are part of the perpetuation of this issue.
Last edited:
BoroMart
Well-known member
It's definitely cut and pasted from some nonsense right wing site.
Bottom line is Hamas and the Israeli state have committed horrible crimes, failure to recognise that perpetuates the issue. Both side have extremists that want to wipe the other out, the fact that Hamas do it in a guerilla warfare fashion and the Israelis do it via a man in a suit ordering his general to do it doesn't make either more or less legitimate.
The claims that Hamas attack citizens and Israelis attack military targets is ludicrous too, both Hamas and the Israeli government wage a war of terror on the other side and specifically target built up civilian populations.
People need to address the elephant in the room, the Israeli government is just as bad as Hamas, until the UK and US stop protecting Israel by refusing to condemn the actions, then nothing will ever ever change. Peace cannot be found at the barrel of a gun, has history taught people nothing?
gregorgregorovich
Well-known member
Maybe start by reading 'The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine' by Ilan Pappe. No mention of the Stern gang or the Irgun in that diatribe either.
BlindBoyGrunt
Well-known member
Or even the opening paragraphs of this paper from the UN itself.
Glover_elbow
Well-known member
I would also say a reason why southern ireland has become more tolerant of others
and has strived for an end to NI conflict is the fact its a far more secular society than 30 years ago. The reduction in Catholicism and its influence in the Republic has been a great positive change for the country. Religious fundamentalism always brings conflict
iamborome
Well-known member
There is a lot of inaccurate information on this thread.
“the early 1900s. The region that is now Israel was inhabited by arabic Palestinians and Jewish people side by side”
Yes but only 10% of the population was Jewish by the end of the first world war
“the state of Israel was invented and internal lines for Palestinian and jewish areas were created. Lots of arabs were turfed out of their homes and moved to "arab areas" and vice versa”
“The Israeli state was established after the 2nd world war (in 1947 IIRC) in a bitf a hurry out of what was the British controlled area in Palestine, ostensibly to give displaced Jews a home”
The state of Israel was not invented or established by higher powers to give displaced Jews a home. In 1947, the UN recommended dividing Palestine into Jewish and Arab states because fighting had broken out. Contrary to what many people believe, this was not a binding resolution. It didn’t create new states and the recommendation was never followed. Arabs were not “turfed out” of their homes and relocated to “Arab areas”, they were subjected to a deliberate policy of ethnic cleansing by Zionist militias.
Around half a million Palestinians (one third of the population) were killed or driven out of Palestine by the Israelis in the months preceding the so called War of Independence, which began on May 15th 1948. This process continued throughout the war and even during the months following the signing of the armistice. This included at least 32 well documented massacres of civilians, at least half of which took place before the onset of war. Once of the most notorious of these was the massacre at Deir Yasin on April 9th 1948 when over 100 villagers were killed by Zionist paramilitary groups. Some of those captured were paraded through the streets of Jerusalem before being shot. News of the killings sparked terror within the Palestinian community, encouraging them to flee from their towns and villages in the face of Jewish troop advances, and it strengthened the resolve of Arab governments to intervene. Menahem Begin, who later became a Prime Minister of Israel, gloated about the massacre in his book about this period: “The legend in Deir Yassin helped us in particular in the saving of Tiberia and the conquest of Haifa...All the Jewish forces proceeded to advance through Haifa like a knife through butter. The Arabs began by limitless panic and started to flee for their lives.”
Here is a testimony of an Israeli soldier who participated in the massacre at al Duwayima Village, on October 29, 1948:
“[They] killed between 80 to 100 Arabs, women and children. To kill the children they fractured their heads with sticks. There was not one house without corpses. The men and women of the villages were pushed into houses without food or water. Then the saboteurs came to dynamite the houses. One commander ordered a soldier to bring two women into a house he was about to blow up... Another soldier prided himself upon having raped an Arab woman before shooting her to death. Another Arab woman with her newborn baby was made to clean the place for a couple of days, and then they shot her and the baby. Educated and well-mannered commanders who were considered ‘good guys’...became base murderers, and this not in the storm of battle, but as a method of expulsion and extermination. The fewer the Arabs who remained, the better.”
The Israeli historian Benny Morris in his book “Revisiting the Palestinian Exodus” stated: “Above all, let me reiterate, the refugee problem was caused by attacks by Jewish forces on Arab villages and towns and by the inhabitants’ fear of such attacks, compounded by expulsions, atrocities, and rumors of atrocities — and by the crucial Israeli Cabinet decision in June 1948 to bar a refugee return.”
“So the conflicts started in earnest. Palestinians started to feel oppressed”
During the Nakba in 1948, 750,000 Arab Palestinian civilians were murdered or driven out of their homes by Zionist terrorists. They fled to place like Gaza (then under Egyptian control) where they have continued to live to this day as refugees. In 1967 Israel took control of Gaza and since 2005 it has become a concentration camp with no-one allowed to enter of leave.
“The Arabs think the Jews are on their land, the Jews think the Arabs have nicked part of their land and some people have forgotten what they are fighting over, but like a good a scrap, and the majority think the minority should stop fighting and let everyone get on with each other”
It is an historical fact that the Zionists did drive the Palestinians from their land. The Zionist claim to Israel is based on the idea that God gave the land to the Jews and Jews lived there 2000 years ago, before the Romans expelled them. No-one has forgotten what they are fighting for; the Zionists want to get rid of all the Arabs and the Arabs want to live free from occupation and oppression. The last serious attempt at peace to which the Palestinians, including the PLO, agreed – the Oslo accords – was scuppered by the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin by a Zionist fanatic and the rise to power of Benjamin Netanyahu.
I condemn the killing of innocent civilians by Hamas, but it is important to get some context and perspective. The fact of the matter is that the state of Israel was created by terrorism and Israel has terrorized the Palestinians ever since.
“the early 1900s. The region that is now Israel was inhabited by arabic Palestinians and Jewish people side by side”
Yes but only 10% of the population was Jewish by the end of the first world war
“the state of Israel was invented and internal lines for Palestinian and jewish areas were created. Lots of arabs were turfed out of their homes and moved to "arab areas" and vice versa”
“The Israeli state was established after the 2nd world war (in 1947 IIRC) in a bitf a hurry out of what was the British controlled area in Palestine, ostensibly to give displaced Jews a home”
The state of Israel was not invented or established by higher powers to give displaced Jews a home. In 1947, the UN recommended dividing Palestine into Jewish and Arab states because fighting had broken out. Contrary to what many people believe, this was not a binding resolution. It didn’t create new states and the recommendation was never followed. Arabs were not “turfed out” of their homes and relocated to “Arab areas”, they were subjected to a deliberate policy of ethnic cleansing by Zionist militias.
Around half a million Palestinians (one third of the population) were killed or driven out of Palestine by the Israelis in the months preceding the so called War of Independence, which began on May 15th 1948. This process continued throughout the war and even during the months following the signing of the armistice. This included at least 32 well documented massacres of civilians, at least half of which took place before the onset of war. Once of the most notorious of these was the massacre at Deir Yasin on April 9th 1948 when over 100 villagers were killed by Zionist paramilitary groups. Some of those captured were paraded through the streets of Jerusalem before being shot. News of the killings sparked terror within the Palestinian community, encouraging them to flee from their towns and villages in the face of Jewish troop advances, and it strengthened the resolve of Arab governments to intervene. Menahem Begin, who later became a Prime Minister of Israel, gloated about the massacre in his book about this period: “The legend in Deir Yassin helped us in particular in the saving of Tiberia and the conquest of Haifa...All the Jewish forces proceeded to advance through Haifa like a knife through butter. The Arabs began by limitless panic and started to flee for their lives.”
Here is a testimony of an Israeli soldier who participated in the massacre at al Duwayima Village, on October 29, 1948:
“[They] killed between 80 to 100 Arabs, women and children. To kill the children they fractured their heads with sticks. There was not one house without corpses. The men and women of the villages were pushed into houses without food or water. Then the saboteurs came to dynamite the houses. One commander ordered a soldier to bring two women into a house he was about to blow up... Another soldier prided himself upon having raped an Arab woman before shooting her to death. Another Arab woman with her newborn baby was made to clean the place for a couple of days, and then they shot her and the baby. Educated and well-mannered commanders who were considered ‘good guys’...became base murderers, and this not in the storm of battle, but as a method of expulsion and extermination. The fewer the Arabs who remained, the better.”
The Israeli historian Benny Morris in his book “Revisiting the Palestinian Exodus” stated: “Above all, let me reiterate, the refugee problem was caused by attacks by Jewish forces on Arab villages and towns and by the inhabitants’ fear of such attacks, compounded by expulsions, atrocities, and rumors of atrocities — and by the crucial Israeli Cabinet decision in June 1948 to bar a refugee return.”
“So the conflicts started in earnest. Palestinians started to feel oppressed”
During the Nakba in 1948, 750,000 Arab Palestinian civilians were murdered or driven out of their homes by Zionist terrorists. They fled to place like Gaza (then under Egyptian control) where they have continued to live to this day as refugees. In 1967 Israel took control of Gaza and since 2005 it has become a concentration camp with no-one allowed to enter of leave.
“The Arabs think the Jews are on their land, the Jews think the Arabs have nicked part of their land and some people have forgotten what they are fighting over, but like a good a scrap, and the majority think the minority should stop fighting and let everyone get on with each other”
It is an historical fact that the Zionists did drive the Palestinians from their land. The Zionist claim to Israel is based on the idea that God gave the land to the Jews and Jews lived there 2000 years ago, before the Romans expelled them. No-one has forgotten what they are fighting for; the Zionists want to get rid of all the Arabs and the Arabs want to live free from occupation and oppression. The last serious attempt at peace to which the Palestinians, including the PLO, agreed – the Oslo accords – was scuppered by the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin by a Zionist fanatic and the rise to power of Benjamin Netanyahu.
I condemn the killing of innocent civilians by Hamas, but it is important to get some context and perspective. The fact of the matter is that the state of Israel was created by terrorism and Israel has terrorized the Palestinians ever since.
gregorgregorovich
Well-known member
Blimey, I read the whole lot. It may well have been quicker to reread the book I mentioned.
BlindBoyGrunt
Well-known member
There was a thread on the SMB entitled 'What punishment will be dealt out to Celtic?' It seems to have been pulled now but reading through it, the balance of opinion seemed to be roughly the opposite of on here. Can views be so variable over such a short distance or is it just that Pure Football has more in common with Come On Boro than with FMTTM?