Banning the Palestinian flag

iamborome said:
You are clearly a fool.
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Far from it, but you throw childish insults if that’s what makes you feel intellectual. Some would say the fool is the man who thinks he knows everything and refuses to view new information without prejudice.

Anyway, you have nothing of interest to say, I find those who throw petty insults dull. Au revoir
 
BoroMart said:
what concessions? Since the state of Israel was formed, it's been constant land grabbing and apartheid regimes in that land.


Wow, irrelevant on so many levels. Arabs also lived in that land alongside Jews, lets not pretend that it was a single country and ruled by one faith and one genetic creed, that's simply not the reality of it. The (right to live on that) land isn't "supposedly in question", The majority of jewish people left almost 2000 years ago, Most jewish people would need to look back at their 78th great-grandparent to find the ones that left because of the romans. To steal the land off the muslims because their 78th great-grandad got turfed out by romans is a stretch of "rights" that is beyond any normal person. I mean should I demand to turf some Swedes out of their land so that I can live there, purely because some ancient ancestor lived there?


But here we are 56 years later and they haven't handed back 3 huge areas, and in fact have increased the land that they have taken. It's also a huge stretch to say those nations wanted to wipe the Jews off the map, they wanted arabic people who had their land and property taken and their rights removed to have freedom again. There are always two sides to the story. Yes Israel felt threatened and retaliated o a brewing invasion, but it is equally true that Paletstinians had been screwed over badly and were suffering.


This is a ludicrous take straight from the republican and tory play book. The idea that Trump is some tough guy and Obama a push over is nonsense.


Agreed, yet here we are, you've talked about rockets fired at Israel and how amazingly well israel have behaved, and how civilised they are, and not once mentioned the civilian population of palestine 99% of which have never fired a rocket or held a gun, yet 30 of them have been killed by israelis for every israeli that has died at the hands of Hamas. That's before you look at the collateral damage caused by short life spans of living in destitution in an apartheid state.


Simply isn't true, Palestinians would be subject to apartheid controls, lack of land, control of basic human resources impinging on their rights.


I've read every word of your post and I can see a prejudiced, xenophobic pile of word salad. Painting people with browner skin and a religion you don't like as war mongering, uncontrollable, non-negotiating. People like you pushing this line are part of the perpetuation of this issue.
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Actually Pinkers' post is pretty accurate. The Hamas incusion was stupid, what did they expect was going to happen? The Israeli reaction has, and will be very heavy handed. But they key issue here, as always since 1937 is the leadership - or so called leadership - of the Palestinian people.

"They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity" (Abba Evan).

They have turned down numerous opportunities to agree to a UN backed Arab state, starting in 1937, then 1939, then 1947, then 1967, then the 1990s, then 2000. Some of those predate Israel but always the pretext us the same - they won't accept the presence of Jews in the area, then the state of Israel. Israel is there because if UN agreements, and Israelis have the right to defend themselves.

Periodically the hostility spills over into a war, Israel kicks their asses, occupies more land and the PLO bleat even more.

Egypt won't open the border with Gaza because they don't want them there either.

Yasser Arafat said to Bill Clinton - "you are a truly great president"
Clinton in response - "no, I'm a colossal failure because of you." Why? After all those negotiations with Clinton and the UN, Arafat was expected to agree that the conflict with Israel was over at the end of the negotiations, when they reached an agreement. This was the true deal breaker because Arafat was not willing to end the conflict.

So the regular Arab people in the West Bank and Gaza continue to suffer because they get railroaded by Hamas or whoever. And Israel is always going to every opportunity to defend itsekf, because it can, politically and militarily.
 
Soutra said:
Actually Pinkers' post is pretty accurate. The Hamas incusion was stupid, what did they expect was going to happen? The Israeli reaction has, and will be very heavy handed. But they key issue here, as always since 1937 is the leadership - or so called leadership - of the Palestinian people.

"They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity" (Abba Evan).

They have turned down numerous opportunities to agree to a UN backed Arab state, starting in 1937, then 1939, then 1947, then 1967, then the 1990s, then 2000. Some of those predate Israel but always the pretext us the same - they won't accept the presence of Jews in the area, then the state of Israel. Israel is there because if UN agreements, and Israelis have the right to defend themselves.

Periodically the hostility spills over into a war, Israel kicks their asses, occupies more land and the PLO bleat even more.

Egypt won't open the border with Gaza because they don't want them there either.

Yasser Arafat said to Bill Clinton - "you are a truly great president"
Clinton in response - "no, I'm a colossal failure because of you." Why? After all those negotiations with Clinton and the UN, Arafat was expected to agree that the conflict with Israel was over at the end of the negotiations, when they reached an agreement. This was the true deal breaker because Arafat was not willing to end the conflict.

So the regular Arab people in the West Bank and Gaza continue to suffer because they get railroaded by Hamas or whoever. And Israel is always going to every opportunity to defend itsekf, because it can, politically and militarily.
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Rubbish.
 
Soutra said:
Actually Pinkers' post is pretty accurate. The Hamas incusion was stupid, what did they expect was going to happen? The Israeli reaction has, and will be very heavy handed. But they key issue here, as always since 1937 is the leadership - or so called leadership - of the Palestinian people.

"They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity" (Abba Evan).

They have turned down numerous opportunities to agree to a UN backed Arab state, starting in 1937, then 1939, then 1947, then 1967, then the 1990s, then 2000. Some of those predate Israel but always the pretext us the same - they won't accept the presence of Jews in the area, then the state of Israel. Israel is there because if UN agreements, and Israelis have the right to defend themselves.

Periodically the hostility spills over into a war, Israel kicks their asses, occupies more land and the PLO bleat even more.

Egypt won't open the border with Gaza because they don't want them there either.

Yasser Arafat said to Bill Clinton - "you are a truly great president"
Clinton in response - "no, I'm a colossal failure because of you." Why? After all those negotiations with Clinton and the UN, Arafat was expected to agree that the conflict with Israel was over at the end of the negotiations, when they reached an agreement. This was the true deal breaker because Arafat was not willing to end the conflict.

So the regular Arab people in the West Bank and Gaza continue to suffer because they get railroaded by Hamas or whoever. And Israel is always going to every opportunity to defend itsekf, because it can, politically and militarily.
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Pinker isn’t accurate at all. Nobody disputes that Hamas have been a huge part of the problem and act without reason, but hamas are not Palestine, Palestine isn’t hamas.

What your ‘accurate’ post has ignored is the crimes of the Israeli state itself against the citizenship of Palestine. The occupation of lands which have been agreed are not Israel’s to invade and hold for half a century. Do you deny the accuracy of that?
 
r00fie1 said:
Your ignorance is not uncommon.
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Neither is your prejudice.
And there are bigger things afoot than an interpretation of a single word.
But if you like, you win. Well done. You must know more about it because you've been there.

Look, I have zero alignment with either Isreal or Palestine.
I condemn wholeheartedly the Hamas attacks on Israel AND the genocide happening right now in Gaza.
But part of this problem is that people want to take 'sides'.
It deosn't have to be so for those not directly involved but has become that way. It perpetuates the tragedy.
Heartbreaking all round.
 
zzzzz said:
Neither is your prejudice.
And there are bigger things afoot than an interpretation of a single word.
But if you like, you win. Well done. You must know more about it because you've been there.

Look, I have zero alignment with either Isreal or Palestine.
I condemn wholeheartedly the Hamas attacks on Israel AND the genocide happening right now in Gaza.
But part of this problem is that people want to take 'sides'.
It deosn't have to be so for those not directly involved but has become that way. It perpetuates the tragedy.
Heartbreaking all round.
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Still haven't stated where I linked Starmer and Zionism?
 
Soutra said:
Actually Pinkers' post is pretty accurate. The Hamas incusion was stupid, what did they expect was going to happen? The Israeli reaction has, and will be very heavy handed. But they key issue here, as always since 1937 is the leadership - or so called leadership - of the Palestinian people.

"They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity" (Abba Evan).

They have turned down numerous opportunities to agree to a UN backed Arab state, starting in 1937, then 1939, then 1947, then 1967, then the 1990s, then 2000. Some of those predate Israel but always the pretext us the same - they won't accept the presence of Jews in the area, then the state of Israel. Israel is there because if UN agreements, and Israelis have the right to defend themselves.

Periodically the hostility spills over into a war, Israel kicks their asses, occupies more land and the PLO bleat even more.

Egypt won't open the border with Gaza because they don't want them there either.

Yasser Arafat said to Bill Clinton - "you are a truly great president"
Clinton in response - "no, I'm a colossal failure because of you." Why? After all those negotiations with Clinton and the UN, Arafat was expected to agree that the conflict with Israel was over at the end of the negotiations, when they reached an agreement. This was the true deal breaker because Arafat was not willing to end the conflict.

So the regular Arab people in the West Bank and Gaza continue to suffer because they get railroaded by Hamas or whoever. And Israel is always going to every opportunity to defend itsekf, because it can, politically and militarily.
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Their has never been a missed opportunity in any of those years you state

You paint it one way, like it was only Hamas/Arafat who are to blame without recognising Israel's role in this

You blame Arafat for the failure of the Camp David Summit but he`d already agreed to hand over 78% of historical Palestine to Israel

Arafat wanted -
Territory handed back that was taken in 67
The right to return for refugees
Palestinian sovereignty for the West Bank and Gaza siting the agreed Oslo Accords (Green Lines) and UN resolution 242
East Jerusalem sovereignty

Israel came to the summit saying that their can be no return to the 1967 borders

By the looks of it you may have read Clinton's book and read western articles that criticise Arafat for the failure of the summit

Can I ask you to read Robert Malley's thoughts on the summit and what Clayton Swisher wrote.
 
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Israeli`s in Tel Aviv calling for a ceasfire risk being beaten, attacked , threatened and treated as traitors by extremists.
These are a few, but they are braver than those who remain silent. The Israeli people are turning on Netanyahu for placing the lives of the hostages at risk and want peace in Palestine. All power to them.
 
Israel orders Al-Quds Hospital in Gaza Strip to evacuate

4 minutes ago


Gaza's Al-Quds Hospital has been ordered to evacuate by Israel, according to the Palestinian Red Crescent.
In a statement on social media, the organisation said they had been told the hospital would be bombed.

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www.middleeasteye.net

Israel-Palestine live: Thousands in state of panic as Israel continues to strike hospitals

More US organisations, including labour unions and Biden staffers, join call for ceasefire in Gaza
www.middleeasteye.net www.middleeasteye.net
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