Asylum seeker guilty of Hartlepool stabbing death

I don't have a problem with people separating the two issues; the crime being committed and the status of the offender.

However you wouldn't look at crimes being committed and say 'just stop them' and neither should you try and argue a simplistic response to the offender's immigration status.
 
Loop said:
It's good to see that there's more concern for whether he's classed as an "illegal immigrant" or an "asylum seeker" than there is for the horrific crime he committed. 🙃
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That was how the issue was framed to begin with, as a question about illegal immigration rather than the crime itself. People are engaging with the topic in the way it was broached.

Why is this an issue?
northernrower said:
Sadly it's standard behaviour from the usual suspects on here.
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But replies like this make it seem like OP wasn't acting in good faith.
 
Many of these people are not fleeing from danger, they are economic migrants, not asylum seekers. Many are young men. It is the women and children who I have empathy for. They are left at home to struggle.

Unfortunately, many do not share the same values as we do and treat women as second class citizens. This is because this is acceptable in their own countries. Poor or no vetting has resulted in men who are criminals in their own country now in a position to commit crimes here. We do not know how many are here because of the monumental c... up to secure our borders and protect our citizens.

They could have sought asylum in the first country they entered in Europe but clearly see this country as a 'soft touch' so make the effort to come here instead. We now have most of the major drugs gangs run by Albanians. People supposedly coming here to flee danger have set up their own money making nefarious activities.

There is nothing racist or xenophobic about wanting to protect our own people from those who would wish them harm. Or want to exploit the generosity of this country.
 
Mountain Climber said:
Many of these people are not fleeing from danger, they are economic migrants, not asylum seekers. Many are young men. It is the women and children who I have empathy for. They are left at home to struggle.

Unfortunately, many do not share the same values as we do and treat women as second class citizens. This is because this is acceptable in their own countries. Poor or no vetting has resulted in men who are criminals in their own country now in a position to commit crimes here. We do not know how many are here because of the monumental c... up to secure our borders and protect our citizens.

They could have sought asylum in the first country they entered in Europe but clearly see this country as a 'soft touch' so make the effort to come here instead. We now have most of the major drugs gangs run by Albanians. People supposedly coming here to flee danger have set up their own money making nefarious activities.

There is nothing racist or xenophobic about wanting to protect our own people from those who would wish them harm. Or want to exploit the generosity of this country.
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You have expressed your point very well there. I share your view but failed in articulating as well as you have.

Nothing you have said is controversial, xenophobic, or in the slightest bit racist, so I would hope others can understand your argument here.
 
Unravel_Morrison said:
So explain how that works as a process rather than just clicking your fingers.
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What are you on about? I'm not giving a solution. I'm sure there are brighter minds than me employed in the field to find a way to implement a tougher policy. However i'm sure when this gent was applying for asylum or housing would have been the ideal time to lift him.
 
dorivasmiddlefinger said:
What are you on about? I'm not giving a solution. I'm sure there are brighter minds than me employed in the field to find a way to implement a tougher policy. However i'm sure when this gent was applying for asylum or housing would have been the ideal time to lift him.
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You do understand you're on about lifting everyone in that system in that case don't you?

I know you aren't giving a solution because the brighter minds realise it's complicated. They just don't like that being explained to the general public, even though it's quite obvious.
 
Unravel_Morrison said:
You do understand you're on about lifting everyone in that system in that case don't you?

I know you aren't giving a solution because the brighter minds realise it's complicated. They just don't like that being explained to the general public, even though it's quite obvious.
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Moroccan nationals, a safe homeland. Deport. Thanks.
Albanian nationals, a safe homeland. Deport. Thanks.
Nigerian nationals, mostly a safe homeland. Deport. Thanks.

etc.
 
dorivasmiddlefinger said:
Moroccan nationals, a safe homeland. Deport. Thanks.
Albanian nationals, a safe homeland. Deport. Thanks.
Nigerian nationals, mostly a safe homeland. Deport. Thanks.

etc.
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Okay, we only have a returns agreement with Albania. What are you doing with the Nigerian and the Moroccan?

How are you arranging these deportations?
 
Unravel_Morrison said:
You do understand you're on about lifting everyone in that system in that case don't you?

I know you aren't giving a solution because the brighter minds realise it's complicated. They just don't like that being explained to the general public, even though it's quite obvious.
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Complicated = too much red tape.
 
Unravel_Morrison said:
Okay, we only have a returns agreement with Albania. What are you doing with the Nigerian and the Moroccan?

How are you arranging these deportations?
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No idea. That's just what i'd like to see and what should be happening. I've told you already, this isn't my field. Perhaps stopping the feet dragging. One way ticket to Lagos?
 
Reading through that article it wouldn’t surprise me if the seemingly issues between killer and the first person, escalated once that attack had finished. The attacker in fight or flight mode went outside and cross paths with that poor old chap, who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The explanation in police interview sounds like a convenient excuse and one to detract from the fact he wanted to kill the first bloke, and continued afterwards because he could. I suspect he would have thought twice if that old chap happened to be a young lad capable of fighting back, or running away.

The killer was reported for carrying a knife previously, but no action taken. I wonder how Cleveland Police decided no action required. Carrying a knife is a crime, so could have led to arrest.
 
Nero said:
Reading through that article it wouldn’t surprise me if the seemingly issues between killer and the first person, escalated once that attack had finished. The attacker in fight or flight mode went outside and cross paths with that poor old chap, who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The explanation in police interview sounds like a convenient excuse and one to detract from the fact he wanted to kill the first bloke, and continued afterwards because he could. I suspect he would have thought twice if that old chap happened to be a young lad capable of fighting back, or running away.

The killer was reported for carrying a knife previously, but no action taken. I wonder how Cleveland Police decided no action required. Carrying a knife is a crime, so could have led to arrest.
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Just watch inside the force to see how incompetent British policing is.
 
northernrower said:
You have expressed your point very well there. I share your view but failed in articulating as well as you have.

Nothing you have said is controversial, xenophobic, or in the slightest bit racist, so I would hope others can understand your argument here.
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Thank you. Regrettably with some people once you criticise 'asylum seekers' - and I use that term loosely - you are called a racist. The reality is that many of those with bad intentions and are not fleeing danger are also a danger to genuine asylum seekers.

If we are not careful this country could experience the same social disorder Ireland has experienced recently. Ireland is a microcosm. Young men who were harassing and assaulting girls outside schools, three girls were stabbed by 'foreigners' and local people feeling dis empowered and disenfranchised by 'outsiders' given priority in housing and other areas.


This resulted in large scale public disorder in Dublin with the inhabitants demanding people entering Ireland and not properly vetted are not allowed into their city. It has made the politicians stop and listen to the people.
 
Nero said:
Reading through that article it wouldn’t surprise me if the seemingly issues between killer and the first person, escalated once that attack had finished. The attacker in fight or flight mode went outside and cross paths with that poor old chap, who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The explanation in police interview sounds like a convenient excuse and one to detract from the fact he wanted to kill the first bloke, and continued afterwards because he could. I suspect he would have thought twice if that old chap happened to be a young lad capable of fighting back, or running away.

The killer was reported for carrying a knife previously, but no action taken. I wonder how Cleveland Police decided no action required. Carrying a knife is a crime, so could have led to arrest.
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It was suggested that carrying in knife in your home is not a crime in itself.
 
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