kuepper
Well-known member
"He has a good kick on him". LOL How can you compare him to Grobalaar ffs, and he hasn't got the basics to improve on just v lucky boy to have made a career out of having no talent
A new keeper is a priority.
- Thread starter Redlips
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Lefty
Well-known member
I've seen him make some really excellent long passes. Keepers these days have to use their feet. We saw it with Ederson especially. Pep wanted him for that quality and refused to criticise him for early mistakes. He was right and the critics were wrong, I'd say.
The comparison with Grobelaar was to illustrate the adaptation process when new tactics, relating to strengths and weaknesses of new personnel often, need to be viewed in the round.
Grobelaar used to come for everything. Clemence and other goalkeepers were much rooted to their line until then. When Grobelaar started coming for everything, defenders who were used to keepers not coming that far out were still going for the ball and getting in each others way. It looked calamitous and everyone blamed Grobelaar. Pretty soon though the Liverpool defenders realised that they wanted him to come for these and they would adapt around him.
Why? Well, Grobalaar's errors might lead to two or three goals conceded a season, but he he might snuff out two or three chances for the opposition per game, which might be more like 8-10 goals per season.
That was the first real tactical innovation a particular keeper brought. The next change was really forced by the backpass rule change. That meant keepers had to improve their kicking.
What we have now, with Pep and Ederson as the prime example, is goalkeepers are not just keepers who need to kick well, they actually need to be good footballers. The game at the top level has always been fast, but now it is so fast that keepers have to be utilised to not just sweep up but to start moves, to transition from defence to attack, to blunt the press.
It is hard to prove counterfactuals, all you can do is a statistical review and at the moment it seems statistically it is working overall having Lumley in.
Donald_Pump
Active member
I reckon we already have the Man City lad at Portsmouth lined up for next season and this season it was just a case of go with what we’ve got and see what we can do. The plan might also involve game time for Sol Brynn but at the moment with the playoffs so highly contested for we have to stick with Lumley who will return to being a decent low wage second choice GK next season, with or without us. Wilders ex keepers have mostly been top drawer so he won’t be not seeing what we are all seeing. UTB
newyddion
Well-known member
A clean sheet every other game, overall concedes less than a goal a game. 26 years old which is nothing for a keeper, 2nd or 3rd season being first choice, adapting to a new style has been showing some really nice footwork and his distribution is spot on.
Daniel Ayala's key contribution to the side was his distribution, those headers initiating our counter attacks. I think Warnock has picked out a gem and Wilder is polishing that gem. Our 'Sweeper Keeper' is much more effective than our fans give him credit for, he's certainly a better goalkeeper than we've had in recent years.
'Our Top Five Goalkeepers in the Past 25 Years'
1. Schwarzer
2. Given
3. Dimi
4. Lumley
5. Randolph
Dimi edges him out currently on experience and number of games played, making the podium with Schwarzer & Given is certainly no small achievement.
Shay Given is there on the standard he played at his whole career he only played like 16 games for the boro.. maybe Carl Ikeme should be in there 10 games 6 clean sheets and no defeats. It's early doors but I think Lumley could be up there. Top THREE there's an argument for him being there already. It's only Shay Given with 16 games keeping him out. We'll see at the end of the season.
indeedido
Well-known member
Open your eyes Newy, he is a spud.
I want a keeper to make saves and claim the ball. He simply doesn't do this.
I wasn't a massive fan of Randolph, but to put Lumley ahead of him is lunacy.
Jedi boro
Well-known member
Are you serious Lumley better than Randolph err yes ok
newyddion
Well-known member
Two points I'd like to make. Joe Lumley is getting better and a snap judgement has been made on Joe Lumley
2017/18 - 30 year old - 6'2
Randolph 46 league games 45 goals conceded, kept 16 clean sheets
2021/22 - 26 year old - 6'3
Lumley 23 league games, 20 goals conceded, kept 10 clean sheets
IT'S TIME TO DOUBLE THE STATS!!! a snap judgement has been made against Joe Lumley.. so we're just going to double his stats so we can compare like for like. bearing in mind that most of these stats were under Warnock's management which was apparently disastrous so one would assume they would improve under Wilder in any case.
DOUBLE THE STATS.. HERE WE GO!
2021/22 - 26 year old - 6'3
Lumley 46 league games, 40 goals conceded, kept 20 clean sheets
He's LOADS better than Darren Randolph, younger, taller, less goals conceded and more clean sheets
(also I like Joe Lumley more as a person. Rumours surrounding Randolph's off the field activities leave very little to be desired)
Andy_W
Well-known member
I disagree, he's currently making too many mistakes compared to the saves he makes above what we would expect him too, to be in a promotion chasing side anyway. We've got the least number of saves in the league mind, and well below mid table save percentage too, but this is also effected by our good defence. We shouldn't get this many mistakes from behind a good defence, they're too common, and he's got away with a few also.
His composure or misguided composure is a big problem, he should be able to retain possession easily when it's easy, and just kick it when he's got less time, he seems to get it the wrong way around too often. We need to be launching balls up front the bare minimum, as our team is not geared up for that to work, but the players who launch it should have the best accuracy (the 10 footballers in front of him). But no keeper should ever get caught out playing a ball across their unguarded goal, it's rule no 1.
That mistake was worse than an open goal for me, as he had the entire pitch to aim at and screwed it up, creating an open goal for them. He could do zero about the other goal, the defence/ mid gave him too much time and it was a great finish.
Look, I'm not saying the others are better, as they're not overall, and nor have most of our previous keepers, and Lumley is the best on crosses and general handling I think, but we need better to compete at a higher level, that's all I'm saying.
He will get better, he's only 26, which is really young for a keeper, but we don't have that time to wait I'm afraid. To me he's one of the weakest links at the minute, which is why we will improve it at the next opportunity.
Last night their keeper made a couple of saves well above what he should be expected to save, and had zero chance with either goal. Sporar had one of those saved where he did all he could just about, and also hit the bar from a tight angle. Watmore doesn't get many chances as more of his game is running, pressure, and creation, they often turnover the ball after he's put down some immense pressure, it adds up.
Connolly looked better in this game, but clearly needs some time and a goal. He had that overhead kick last night from nothing, and he hit it too well to be honest, had he miskicked it left/ right it would have went in.
It doesn't matter where the goals come from though, it depends how a team is geared up, and we should get plenty from set pieces. We're getting a good contribution from Crooks, but that's always going to happen with a good player, playing alongside our most creative player. Sporar's scored quite a few wince Wilder came in.
We could do with Tav chipping in more, but he's like Watmore, got more of an energetic role, and was our best player last night. Could do with Jones nicking another couple also, but when he's creating so many, I'm not concerned by that.
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JM14
Well-known member
Thats likely the case but spending such a huge amount of wages on Balogun when the keeper has been so poor all season is incredibly poor by the club. Its not like this is just a one off from Lumley, its happening almost every game, just thankfully it hasnt actually cost us that many times yet