.

ForssAwakens said:
I think this thread clearly demonstrates the need for electoral reform

I’m much more at home with the Green Party than I am with Keir Starmer’s Labour

I’m much more at home with 2019 Labour than I am with the Green Party

I’ll be voting for Keir starmer Labour as that’s the best chance of making people live better as quick as possible

It shouldn’t be like that
Click to expand...

CONSERVATIVES WIN, STARMER CLAIMS VICTORY
The next election feels like it's going to be a bit of a repeat of the 2005 General election where as the Conservatives were in opposition but didn't put too strong of a case forward their vote increased by around 30.. something that if Keir Starmer achieves it will take the party to around the same sort of level as with Ed Miliband in 2010 (232 seats sounds about right)

CON DEM COALITION
Conservative are pulling in at least 317 a dozen seats from the Lib Dems will see them get the gang back together..
I wonder what deal they put together this time around.. the Lib Dems got their hands burnt last time around and would need some stronger assurances. Another Brexit Referendum?

LABOUR RAINBOW COALITION
See a Gordon Brown sized drop from Rishi Sunak? minus 91 seats 274 seats (only 12 more than Corbyn in 2017)
Labour pulling in those seats 91, to take their total to 293 seats.. gaining the the 10 the SNP are set to lose.. 303 seats still needing a coalition of sorts to make it work, the Lib Dems will put in a dozen, the Greens with 1.. still needing to do a deal with the SNP to form a coalition government. I can't see them going for another referendum for independence.. Another Brexit Referendum?

Pulling in more than Corbyn's 262 seats from 2017 or Kinnock's 271 seats from 1992 will be seen as a resounding victory.
a hung Parliment, will be in essence a Con Lab coalition? with no one in opposition.

Best case scenario apparently is for Labour to amalgamate the Lib Dems.. if Jeremy Corbyn had done that the last election the popular vote would have looked something like this..

Conservative 13,966,454 votes
Labour 13,965,470 vote

Just show the difference those 11 seats from the Lid Dems make
 
Last edited:
Nano said:
Relatively, no. They are still poor and they still have poor prospects but that's what they had anyway. Are you suggesting we didn't have any poor people before Brexit?

We could have had Brexit and improved all those things @r00fie1 has mentioned if we had a government that cared. Our relationship with the EU is not the main reason why those people are poor.

You don't have to wait 30 years. Do you struggle with comprehension or something? Big picture doesn't mean look now or in 30 years, it means look at the whole picture. Why are you using that analogy if you don't understand it yourself? Things will be better in 1 year, 2 years, 5 years, 10 years etc. I'm saying you can't assess how something so big affects a country by looking at just the immediate impact. It would be like looking at a road with a speed bump and measuring the speed of the car in only the 1st 1m after the bump. The car will accelerate once it's over the bump. Something as significant as Brexit can only cause friction in the immediate term. It's too big a change not to.
Click to expand...
I dont struggle with comprehension. That why I didn't make the stupid decision to vote to leave the EU. I listened to experts and understood what they were saying.

You aligned yourself to the side that said "don't listen to experts".

You might need to have a think about who struggles more with comprehension.
 
BoroMart said:
If an individual tory voter vocally supports oppressive policies, then shouldn't they be fair game to be called out?
Click to expand...
If they are happy with national debt being trippled, interest rates sky rocketing and fuel bill going through the roof. Leave them to it. You’re not going to change their mind. The whole lot of them are out of control, no redeeming features at all.. apart from not having Corbyn and ‘Getting Brexit Done’ - they can only dine off that for a few years and I would think some of them would vote for David Cameron in a red tie.
 
newyddion said:
If they are happy with national debt being trippled, interest rates sky rocketing and fuel bill going through the roof. Leave them to it. You’re not going to change their mind. The whole lot of them are out of control, no redeeming features at all.. apart from not having Corbyn and ‘Getting Brexit Done’ - they can only dine off that for a few years and I would think some of them would vote for David Cameron in a red tie.
Click to expand...
Can't stand this current lot but even a cursory look shows the national debt tripled under the last labour government and average interest rates were higher than they are now 1997 to 2009
 
At the last Conservative Party Conference, Boris Johnson applauded the Tories for having “tackled the debt and the deficit” left by the last Labour Government. But, the truth is that the Conservatives have created a huge national debt. The Tories are the real culprits of ‘spending all the money’ rather than the disingenuous phrase of “Labour spent all the money” – which is one of the biggest myths in UK politics. What is also conveniently forgotten is that the Labour Government ran a surplus between 1998-2002 – an achievement almost unparalleled in modern history in the UK.

In 1997-1998, public sector debt as a percentage of GDP was 40.4 per cent; in 2007-2008 it was 36.4 per cent; in 2010-2011 it was 60.0 per cent; and in December 2019 it was 82.9 per cent.
 
newyddion said:
If they are happy with national debt being trippled, interest rates sky rocketing and fuel bill going through the roof. Leave them to it. You’re not going to change their mind. The whole lot of them are out of control, no redeeming features at all.. apart from not having Corbyn and ‘Getting Brexit Done’ - they can only dine off that for a few years and I would think some of them would vote for David Cameron in a red tie.
Click to expand...
Don’t need to change their mind but happy to call it out for what it is
 
newyddion said:
At the last Conservative Party Conference, Boris Johnson applauded the Tories for having “tackled the debt and the deficit” left by the last Labour Government. But, the truth is that the Conservatives have created a huge national debt. The Tories are the real culprits of ‘spending all the money’ rather than the disingenuous phrase of “Labour spent all the money” – which is one of the biggest myths in UK politics. What is also conveniently forgotten is that the Labour Government ran a surplus between 1998-2002 – an achievement almost unparalleled in modern history in the UK.

In 1997-1998, public sector debt as a percentage of GDP was 40.4 per cent; in 2007-2008 it was 36.4 per cent; in 2010-2011 it was 60.0 per cent; and in December 2019 it was 82.9 per cent.
Click to expand...
Now now don’t come here with your facts
 
Starmer is an absolute S**thouse isn't he. Couldn't cite anti-Semitism in his plan to bar Corbyn, because he knew it wouldn't stand up to any scrutiny in court but since then, his big hitters - Lammy, Streeting and even Ed Miliband have all been briefed to mention AS as soon as they are questioned about the move.
When Miliband's father Ralph, who with his father fled from Belgium to escape the holocaust in 1940, was being attacked by the Daily Mail in 2013, Corbyn was probably the only MP to defend him but there was Ed on national TV linking the barring to anti-Semitism. The DM's header that day was The man who hated Britain. Quite ironic that the Mail was supporting Hitler at the time Ralph Miliband was fleeing Mainland Europe to save his life.
 
newyddion said:
Yadda yadda yadda
Click to expand...
He's right though,and we all have to be accountable for our own actions to some degree or other. No one gets a free pass for refusing to do their homework and read up on what this lot were actually about and what they'd done in the recent past.
 
BoroMart said:
He's right though,and we all have to be accountable for our own actions to some degree or other. No one gets a free pass for refusing to do their homework and read up on what this lot were actually about and what they'd done in the recent past.
Click to expand...
I think the problem is that most people are decent and want to do the best for their families, they watch tv and they read the papers, ‘more money for the nhs’ and they trust that any government will serve them and protect their interests. This government clearly hasn’t done that and it wasn’t the fault of the folks that put them in power. The people that need to be made accountable are the tvvats that have been filling their pockets on the back of the pandemic.

The country is far too divided right now and when you talk about being accountable I think folks from both sides of any opinion have been led astray by the powers that be and turned on their fellow man. Folks in pubs or on social media calling each other idiots, being honest about it both are right. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been guilty of the very same. The penny is dropping and I think people are starting to wake up. I like how bring ‘woke’ is being tossed around like an insult now.. like being ignorant is a badge of honour now and something to be proud of.. patriotic even!
 
newyddion said:
I think the problem is that most people are decent and want to do the best for their families, they watch tv and they read the papers, ‘more money for the nhs’ and they trust that any government will serve them and protect their interests. This government clearly hasn’t done that and it wasn’t the fault of the folks that put them in power. The people that need to be made accountable are the tvvats that have been filling their pockets on the back of the pandemic.

The country is far too divided right now and when you talk about being accountable I think folks from both sides of any opinion have been led astray by the powers that be and turned on their fellow man. Folks in pubs or on social media calling each other idiots, being honest about it both are right. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been guilty of the very same. The penny is dropping and I think people are starting to wake up. I like how bring ‘woke’ is being tossed around like an insult now.. like being ignorant is a badge of honour now and something to be proud of.. patriotic even!
Click to expand...
If they screwed you over then you vote for them again, then they screw you over and you still believe them and vote a third time. Then you are accountable for that.

As the old saying goes “fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me”.

Im not sure how people with anti-Tory sentiment are equally accountable for the state we are in as those who voted Tory repeatedly. That isn’t logical, and can’t be used an excuse.

I agree that we have a divided culture, the country is broken, but we have to be honest what the root cause of the problems are, Tories allowing billionaire and nefarious influence into their policy which is now extreme and ideological. Ideologies to the nth degree are dangerous for any society.

I totally agree about this woke thing: it’s effectively saying empathy is bad. It’s the modern equivalent of “fecking doogooder” I’d rather be a doo gooder than someone that does bad
 
Last edited:
exiledinboro said:
Most people vote for their own self interest especially in a first past the post system. The winning party only need 30-45% of the votes
Click to expand...

Wonder if people think their self interests have been served over the last 13 years, who are not part of the 1%

The problem for me is not the individuals who are put up by the parties as candidates.
It’s the actual system itself. FPTP is now the main barrier to allowing a representative and democratic voting system, which needs removing. Which in itself would lead up to with the necessary constitutional changes to us being a more democratic society.
 
Andy_W said:
You need to be careful what you wish for, PR could enable a group like UKIP who were polling at around 20% of votes at their peak. I would be amazed if the "far left" outnumbered the far right, and be even more amazed if they outnumbered them in the groups most likely to vote (old people). PR only works when you're losing, as you will get more say, but as you've lost you've still got no majority so it still probably doesn't work. If Labout get a big majority, the last thing they should push for is PR.
Click to expand...
This is a problem for me. PR is a fairer system than FPTP because, as you say, it gives people more say. If UKIP represent a threat then so be it; who are we to deny people a voice. What PR would do in this case is force politicians to actually go out and win the argument rather than rely on the majority of voters putting their X next to one of the two main parties.

A problem I have had with Starmer and his supporters is that they have been using the argument that he is 'keeping his powder dry' or that he is saying one thing but as soon as he gets power he will do the opposite because until he gets power his hands are tied. For me a good politician puts his cards on the table and then goes out and presents his argument to the public. In Germany we have a situation where a party that wanted to legalise cannabis won enough seats to be part of the coalition and insisted that legislation should be considered as part of the deal. In this country we have Starmer, only last week making the argument that weed is evil, because in a two party state he feels compelled to do so. Although I don't personally like Starmer I would say that this is as much a fault of our system as the man and FPTP is a barrier to progressive politics.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top