1930s Germany has arrived in the UK

JonnyHistory said:
To create division you need a platform, joe blogs in the street, and his angry Twitter rants aren't going to make anyone hate refugees,
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Oh but it does and surely that's the point.
Unprecedented access to popularist opinion and the loudest shouter spread wider by those that would normally have been marginalised extremists.
joe blogs in the street used to have his angry rant in his street..... now it has the potential to be heard by millions of vulnerable halfwits
 
SmallTown said:
Cutting through all the deflection. I'm glad you've finally admitted the government have taken control of the electoral commission. We got there! Now they have control do you expect them to allow free and fair elections? Or perhaps use it to their advantage? They didn't taken control accidentally
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If that were your main point then you only had to ask. And why ‘admit?’ I’m no defender of this current shower.
Will elections still be free and fair? Yes, I think so. But talking of deflection, are you able to name books that have been banned on ideological grounds. That would concern me.
 
The Ruthsayer said:
If that were your main point then you only had to ask. And why ‘admit?’ I’m no defender of this current shower.
Will elections still be free and fair? Yes, I think so. But talking of deflection, are you able to name books that have been banned on ideological grounds. That would concern me.
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I did ask 3 times and you tried the usual trick of trying to deflect and half answer.

So, why do you think the government took control of the electoral commission if it wanted free and fair elections? Why not leave as is, Independent?
 
The Ruthsayer said:
If that were your main point then you only had to ask. And why ‘admit?’ I’m no defender of this current shower.
Will elections still be free and fair? Yes, I think so. But talking of deflection, are you able to name books that have been banned on ideological grounds. That would concern me.
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www.theguardian.com

Schools in England told not to use material from anti-capitalist groups

Idea categorised as ‘extreme political stance’ equivalent to endorsing illegal activity
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

They are trying!!
 
zzzzz said:
Oh but it does and surely that's the point.
Unprecedented access to popularist opinion and the loudest shouter spread wider by those that would normally have been marginalised extremists.
joe blogs in the street used to have his angry rant in his street..... now it has the potential to be heard by millions of vulnerable halfwits
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I'm sorry but we will disagree here, people can be heard but that doesn't mean they are influencing.

When the government villify it emboldens and give a license to people to hate that group. Joe blogs does not have the same impact.
 
JonnyHistory said:
I'm sorry but we will disagree here, people can be heard but that doesn't mean they are influencing.

When the government villify it emboldens and give a license to people to hate that group. Joe blogs does not have the same impact.
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Missing the point again.
It's all about the influence that joe blogs has compared to what he had, say, 10 or even 5 years ago.
I will say though that the point I make is trivial to the wider debate that you and the sherrif are having....
way beyond me but fascinating nonetheless.
And civilised. (y)
 
zzzzz said:
Missing the point again.
It's all about the influence that joe blogs has compared to what he had, say, 10 or even 5 years ago.
I will say though that the point I make is trivial to the wider debate that you and the sherrif are having....
way beyond me but fascinating nonetheless.
And civilised. (y)
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I don't think I am missing any point, reach does not equate influence. Also if one feels emboldened by the state you are more likely to act than if Joe Blogs had suggested it.

Let me put it this way if a Twitter blogger with 5 million subscribers says all Jess are bad and we should kill them people may agree but few would act, if the state said the same thing more people would act.

Reach and influence should not conflated in this debate. Communication changes but power and influence is less changeable.
 
SmallTown said:
I did ask 3 times and you tried the usual trick of trying to deflect and half answer.

So, why do you think the government took control of the electoral commission if it wanted free and fair elections? Why not leave as is, Independent?
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I don’t evade questions. Ask and I will answer.
I’m confident that our elections will remain fair and free, but I do not condone governmental oversight.
Now, please return the favour and tell me which books have been banned by this government, which you clearly and unambiguously claimed earlier in this conversation.
 
JH (or WeeGord or ST)

No answer yet to my afternoon question yet - which is the most/least fascist Thatcher's Governments or Johnson's? even you want you can include Heath and Major too.
 
The Ruthsayer said:
There isn’t a single Commissioner.
The Commission Board comprises:

  • a Chair
  • four Commissioners nominated by political parties represented in the House of Commons
  • three Commissioners appointed as leads for Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales
  • two other Commissioners
Are you suggesting that our elections are not just and fair? What is your alternative?
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Well the referendum has had its fair share of scrutiny
 
Redwurzel said:
JH (or WeeGord or ST)

No answer yet to my afternoon question yet - which is the most/least fascist Thatcher's Governments or Johnson's? even you want you can include Heath and Major too.
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I think some people have purposely misinterpreted the thread title for whatever reason that may be. The point I was making was that we are living in troubling times in the UK as far as democracy goes and there are certainly some parallels between what's happening here now and 1930s Germany.

There are many intelligent people posting on this thread that surely understand the point I was making but instead are responding as if I've said we're already a fascist state, which isn't true. There are, however, an increasing number of parallels that can be drawn.

In answer to your question I think the Johnson Govt is probably the one that bears most similarties with fascism or certainly heading that way at least. The least was probably the Major govt as we were moving more towards a consensus politics at that point, there weren't as many divisions within society and the Major Govt didn't generally try to create a bogeyman. The 70s and 80s were times when the NF existed sadly, when the Irish were the bogeymen too.

I'm not super intelligent and don't pretend to be; there are more intelligent people than me on this thread who have a greater understanding of the nuances of ideology and politics. However, I stand by my original point and post that this govt is taking us on a very unsavoury journey and the destination is a very dark place. The similarities with previous fascist regimes are there for all to see if they look hard enough.
 
The Ruthsayer said:
Fair response, but it did not happen. The curriculum is subject to continual change, but the books are not being banned. They will still be available, but I agree it is a retrograde step.
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That's why I said they are trying.

We are not as far down the path as the US we are not as far behind as many think though.
 
@reds

This government in modern times, and it's not close. Thatcher was a neo liberalist Not a fascist or even far-right, not that makes her much better than the current lot. This government has the potential to do far more damage than Thatcher which in of itself is a scary thought.
 
Thatcher was no social liberal which is totally different from economic liberal.

She discrimated against gay people (look up section 28 and read below), supported apparteid in South Africa, said General Pinochet (murdered 100s of 1000s and tortured even more in Chile) was one of her best friends, we had the worst race riots in our history in 1981 - I am sorry but quite a few posters haven't a clue or are trolling. Did they live through the 1980s? In the 1970s people were interned in Northern Ireland that means they locked up just in case they might cause trouble. How many people are interned now?

www.petertatchellfoundation.org

1980s: A decade of state-sanctioned homophobia

Open season on queers by state, church, tabloids & police
www.petertatchellfoundation.org www.petertatchellfoundation.org
 
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Redwurzel said:
Thatcher was no social liberal which is totally different from economic liberal.

She discrimated against gay people (look up section 28 and read below), supported apparteid in South Africa, said General Pinochet (murdered 100s of 1000s and tortured even more in Chile) was one of her best friends, we had the worst race riots in our history in 1981 - I am sorry but quite a few posters haven't a clue or are trolling. Did they live through the 1980s? In the 1970s people were interned in Northern Ireland that means they locked up just in case they might cause trouble. How many people are interned now?

www.petertatchellfoundation.org

1980s: A decade of state-sanctioned homophobia

Open season on queers by state, church, tabloids & police
www.petertatchellfoundation.org www.petertatchellfoundation.org
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Jonny said neoliberalism
 
Redwurzel said:
Thatcher was no social liberal which is totally different from economic liberal.

She discrimated against gay people (look up section 28 and read below), supported apparteid in South Africa, said General Pinochet (murdered 100s of 1000s and tortured even more in Chile) was one of her best friends, we had the worst race riots in our history in 1981 - I am sorry but quite a few posters haven't a clue or are trolling. Did they live through the 1980s? In the 1970s people were interned in Northern Ireland that means they locked up just in case they might cause trouble. How many people are interned now?

www.petertatchellfoundation.org

1980s: A decade of state-sanctioned homophobia

Open season on queers by state, church, tabloids & police
www.petertatchellfoundation.org www.petertatchellfoundation.org
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Thatcher went on the attack to defend the class interests she represented.
Some posters were either too young, unaware of our history or have short memories.
Dont forget the poll tax riots.(y)
 
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