Randy
Well-known member
This is exactly it.
All Labour have done in the past 12 months is agree with everything the Tories have put forward. Either voting with or abstaining (which is basically the same thing given the Tory majority).
14 point Tory lead - Disastrous polling for Labour
- Thread starter Pog
- Start date
All Labour have done in the past 12 months is agree with everything the Tories have put forward. Either voting with or abstaining (which is basically the same thing given the Tory majority).
Andy_W
Well-known member
Labours problem is it has too much competition from its relative own side, with too many parties their vote just gets diluted. They were scoring own goals with Corbyn, who either needed to unite the left or move slightly further right to secure votes, and he did neither. He tried to drag voters further left, when he should have concentrated on winning them, before trying to shift them.
Now Starmer has to try and pick up the pieces, albeit this is the worst time to try and do it, with the vaccines going so well. If he worked against the tories (or provided major opposition now) then it could be seen as undermining the covid fight, albeit the tories already messed that up for a good 10 months of 2020. His only real option is to put up more of a fight and use what they have after covid has been solved and people have forgotten about the good vaccine rollout (which we had to do, as we messed up covid so badly). It seems Tories and those on the fence have already forgotten the and bad bit/ deaths, it seems like they have short memories.
Labour really need a proportional voting system, and nobody honest should ever be against this. Too late for this now though.
The fact that the Tories can have a "majority" with 43% of the votes, is bonkers, even more so when this is about 43% of the 70% of adults that vote, and less than 14m out of 68m population, they have about a fifth of the population voting for them, a fifth!
How can 14m have a majority over 54m that are not voting for something, its crazy.
Also, a massive chunk of that 14m are either retired or so loaded that they don't even have to work or rely on public services, effectively their vote will have less of an impact on their life, but their vote could make a lot of peoples lives worse.
The system is least fair for those that need it most fair, or are most vulnerable/ at risk. Those that can afford risk (and money) don't even need the system to be in their favour, yet it is heavily stacked to assist them. Bonkers.
Now Starmer has to try and pick up the pieces, albeit this is the worst time to try and do it, with the vaccines going so well. If he worked against the tories (or provided major opposition now) then it could be seen as undermining the covid fight, albeit the tories already messed that up for a good 10 months of 2020. His only real option is to put up more of a fight and use what they have after covid has been solved and people have forgotten about the good vaccine rollout (which we had to do, as we messed up covid so badly). It seems Tories and those on the fence have already forgotten the and bad bit/ deaths, it seems like they have short memories.
Labour really need a proportional voting system, and nobody honest should ever be against this. Too late for this now though.
The fact that the Tories can have a "majority" with 43% of the votes, is bonkers, even more so when this is about 43% of the 70% of adults that vote, and less than 14m out of 68m population, they have about a fifth of the population voting for them, a fifth!
How can 14m have a majority over 54m that are not voting for something, its crazy.
Also, a massive chunk of that 14m are either retired or so loaded that they don't even have to work or rely on public services, effectively their vote will have less of an impact on their life, but their vote could make a lot of peoples lives worse.
The system is least fair for those that need it most fair, or are most vulnerable/ at risk. Those that can afford risk (and money) don't even need the system to be in their favour, yet it is heavily stacked to assist them. Bonkers.
Billy Horner
Well-known member
It's a 12-point swing in 4 days, rather than 24%, but the wider argument about quality of the polling data is still valid.
Chris_Boro
Well-known member
No they haven't.
Chris_Boro
Well-known member
Yeah the guy has just gave a % based on the Tories now being 2 points up from 22 points behind.
Actual data for regions, previous poll...
This one...
jam69
Well-known member
Labour opposed the government's handling of the lobbying scandal by putting forward a proper inquiry, they lost badly, why are voters ok with every tory voting against it, they don't care and the tories know it.
The Tories have took the bits that made trump so popular and its working for them.
Turkeys really will vote for Xmas if you tell them its the fault of the vegans they are on the kitchen table December 25th.
The Tories have took the bits that made trump so popular and its working for them.
Turkeys really will vote for Xmas if you tell them its the fault of the vegans they are on the kitchen table December 25th.
Pog
Well-known member
Without mentioning the Tories, can you tell us what Kier Starmer stands for?
If he was elected tomorrow, what policies would we expect him to implement?
Ridiculous this. And not backed up by the polls.
Labour were neck and neck at the end of last summer - how was that possible if the Labour left were against him from the start? It's not that the Corbyn "fan boys" have had it in for Starmer from day one, it's that Starmer's gone out of his way to pick fights with them repeatedly over the last year and over time it's predictably pushing people away. The first few Starmer attacks - covering up the leaked report, sacking RLB - he mostly got away with. The latter ones - abstaining on the spy cops bill, booting Corbyn out the party - are the straws that have broke the camels back and are the events that coincide with Labours slide in the polls over the last 6 months.
BlindBoyGrunt
Well-known member
BlindBoyGrunt
Well-known member
He's not a political person. He has no beliefs that he dare reveal.
Corbyn on the latest Tory bills.
Pog
Well-known member
Nail on head.
Andy_W
Well-known member
Labour haven't really slid. a year ago there was a 20% gap, favouring the Tories, now it's reduced to 13%. Starmer was clawing that back, and had it level around Christmas, largely because of tories messing up covid and obvious brexit issues, so he was putting pressure on then, when the tories were screwing up.
Now, with the vaccines going well, which means we should be opening up fully again soon, it is not a good time to go on the attack, it's a time to defend. Yes, there has been a recent loss to tories, but nowhere near what it was, and they will be back in site again when the vaccine positive wears off and brexit becomes number one problem again, and the tories start shooting themselves in the foot again. The idea is to not lose too much ground, and not criticise something when there is largely a positive change/ mood.
Criticising the government now would be like criticising wanting to get back to normal, which would just not work long term. They're just biding their time, and will put up more "fight" when it will score more points. No point fighting now, as it is an unwinnable battle at the minute.
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HolgateCorner
Well-known member
I agree, they have only agreed with the medical advice rather than Johnson.
The Tories have bought millions of votes during the pandemic particularly in the older age groups in which they are strong.
Look, if the country likes Johnson, Hancock, Patel and the increasingly dodgy Sunak then you get what you get until enough people wake up again.
@Andy_ none so blind...
You've posted a graph exactly proving my point about when Labour's polling started falling off.
Nows not a good time to attack cause people are going to the pubs
and yet the excuse last year was its bad to attack whiles there's a crisis.
If you're someone who thinks there's never a good time to criticise tory governments, maybe you shouldn't be leader of the Labour party IMHO.
You've posted a graph exactly proving my point about when Labour's polling started falling off.
Nows not a good time to attack cause people are going to the pubs
and yet the excuse last year was its bad to attack whiles there's a crisis.If you're someone who thinks there's never a good time to criticise tory governments, maybe you shouldn't be leader of the Labour party IMHO.
festa5
Well-known member
So nothing to do with the vaccine roll out and all to do with abstaining against a bill your average bloke probably knew little about and if he did would surely hold it against the party proposing the bill even more than the party abstaining?
Feels like a bit of a stretch.
I understand some of the disappointment with Starmer and I apologise for tarring all of the Corbyn supporters with the same brush. But I've seen plenty on social media start posting anti-starmer stuff immediately following his win in the leadership contest. For SOME there were scores to be settled and/or he was never going to be left wing enough.
It just ***** me off (as it did when it happened with Corbyn) because all the infighting just plays into the Tory's hands.
Archiestephens_elbow
Well-known member
It doesn't help having weekly news conferences which are basically party political broadcasts, which are usually restricted.
KS ain't perfect but look at the thieves in charge he's got to be worth a shot
KS ain't perfect but look at the thieves in charge he's got to be worth a shot
Fair enough but IMO Starmer's had nothing like the treatment Corbyn's Labour had. To the point I'm really questioning what the point of the Socialist Campaign Group of MPs within the Labour Party is. None of them stick their neck out to criticise Starmer failing to stick by his leadership pledges.
Look at the data. It's Labour voters moving to the Lib Dems, Greens, or just to don't know/abstain. Why would that be a response to the vaccines?
Otto42
Well-known member
Labour voters moving to Greens and Lib Dems is pretty pointless when it comes to electing a government in our first past the post system, but reasonable in the current climate of more nuanced local elections?