How is it a shambles if you are not able to get the players you want because they are not available or you can’t finance them until you sell yourself?
It is very easy to criticise and can be much harder to actually do things.
12 Days to go / 14 First team players
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It is very easy to criticise and can be much harder to actually do things.
indeedido
Well-known member
No matter how good they may be, the difference they make and how their value grows?
Get some ambition.
Glover_elbow
Well-known member
surely we could have borrowed short term and not waited until the spence checked cleared
Well do you really think the club have turned down deals that they could have done?
Glover_elbow
Well-known member
To me, five loans are way too many, especially as key players and our principal strikers, I am not a fan of loans in the same positions in fact I am not a fan of multiple loans at all. We have had far more failures than successes with loans especially from the premier league, I don’t think it’s the right way to develop a promotion side for the following reasons
If things aren’t going to plan loan players tend not to show the same commitment to the team as permanent signings.
In my opinion they should only be loaned if they are not on massively different pay rates and we also have a realistic chance and the financial clout of making a permanent signing, I don’t want us loaning the next bright young superstar from Chelsea who we have absolutely no chance of signing permanently. It doesn’t help us long term.
There’s also the question of kickbacks and penalties if they don’t make a certain number of appearances influencing team selections, that can be the only reason connolly got so much game time last season.
Most significantly, if you do get promoted with half a team on loan, you are in the situation where you need to spend 30 -40 million just to tread water in terms of personnel in a higher division. So, unless we have an open cheque book on promotion, then promotion with loans is likely to mean immediate relegation.
In my opinion the answer is less loans 3 at most and better permanent recruitment, identifying and signing of bright young players earlier in their career path at lower prices dare I say the Brentford model. As an example fans on here have gone on all summer about signing Gyokeres but it’s a season too late for us in his career path we should have identified him early on the season before, when he signed for Coventry. I would much rather the club took a chance on a league one striker than a premier league loan everytime. For every loan success like bamford we have had at least 6 or 7 failures like connolly, it doesnt work often enough to be considered a successful recruitment strategy.
If things aren’t going to plan loan players tend not to show the same commitment to the team as permanent signings.
In my opinion they should only be loaned if they are not on massively different pay rates and we also have a realistic chance and the financial clout of making a permanent signing, I don’t want us loaning the next bright young superstar from Chelsea who we have absolutely no chance of signing permanently. It doesn’t help us long term.
There’s also the question of kickbacks and penalties if they don’t make a certain number of appearances influencing team selections, that can be the only reason connolly got so much game time last season.
Most significantly, if you do get promoted with half a team on loan, you are in the situation where you need to spend 30 -40 million just to tread water in terms of personnel in a higher division. So, unless we have an open cheque book on promotion, then promotion with loans is likely to mean immediate relegation.
In my opinion the answer is less loans 3 at most and better permanent recruitment, identifying and signing of bright young players earlier in their career path at lower prices dare I say the Brentford model. As an example fans on here have gone on all summer about signing Gyokeres but it’s a season too late for us in his career path we should have identified him early on the season before, when he signed for Coventry. I would much rather the club took a chance on a league one striker than a premier league loan everytime. For every loan success like bamford we have had at least 6 or 7 failures like connolly, it doesnt work often enough to be considered a successful recruitment strategy.
Humpty
Well-known member
43 days to go you mean?
BoroMart
Well-known member
agreed but I'm not sure we can do it any other way. We need to have 3 more CFs, you might get a freebee, but his wages would be 1m for the year, you might have to buy two more, lets say a cheap CF at 5m then expensive at 15m. they would come with big wages. Not sure we can afford that right now. But yes, we do need to break the cycle of loan dependencies, so that we can build our assets up.
Personally I'd like us to max at 2 loans, or 3 at most but one has to be an option to buy. It might take a couple of years of squad reshaping though before we can get to that.
The flip side of course is that not only do we rarely get loans in that work, but very few off our young players who we loan out come back with game time, and a buzz around their future. We need to look at ways of ensuring our squad has space for our 3 best kids to get game time and push the senior players. I'd like Coburn to stay this year, not go and sit on the bench at Lincoln City or Carlisle United.
Glover_elbow
Well-known member
i would rather we took are time and source two good 5m strikers, i really dont want the club to spend 15m on anyone, for someone of that price we would have break our wage structure.
viv_andersons_nana
Well-known member
That was the reservation I had about Gyokeres when people were advocating spending the £15m. It’s a LOT of money to spend on one player. We’ve been there before. As you say, we need to be the club picking up Gyokeres or players like Watkins, Piroe, etc, and developing them.
BoroMart
Well-known member
If you are only prepared to pay 5m then that's an admission that you are trying to build up players over a few years rather than go for it. As indeedio mentioned, we have a big FFP headroom now, we should utilise it. Maybe not at 15m, but if were going to replenish our CF stocks, then now is the time to do it. Worst case, we sell Tav and Fry next summer
So how many weeks do we waste before the window shuts, 6 games, 7?
But the
Club openly said their targets were not dependent on any sales. Why does the club come up with stuff like that when every fan can see that 12-15m will make a difference to your targets?
BoroMart
Well-known member
That's how I see Marcus Forss, in that bracket. He's 23 and would cost about 3-4m. With 2 good champo years he could be worth 15m+
The ideal striker squad would have an experienced old pro - around 31, a prime player about 27-29, an up and comer like Forss at 23, and then a 20 year old or two.
We're so far behind on our squad building over the last few years though that we have to buy that 27-29 year old at a rime value because of competition. He should have been bought 2 or 3 years ago cheaper and grown into that role. Squad building has been poor, lots of kneejerk signings, missed opportunities, poor player progression. We're still suffering from bad signings 4 or 5 years ago. We did actually buy the prime player in Braithwaite, the up and coming 23 year old in Britt and the youngster in Fletcher. Sadly we made really bad selections on personality, attitude and ambitions.
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret
Well-known member
Just list them. Write them down. All of our big money buys who have gone on to be a success who we sold on for a profit.
Or look at the list of the championships most expensive players.
Flop after flop after flop.
There is no correlation whatsoever between money spent on players at our club and the success they have gone on to enjoy. None whatsoever.
Actually I may be wrong. There could well be an inverse correlation between money spent and quality of player.
Just once. Just one time I would like the club to actually sit down, look at the mistakes that have been made and learn from them.
Successful clubs make sensible deals. They don't sign players in the middle of 5 year contracts.
DCI_Gene_Hunt
Well-known member
Zack Steffen (GK)
Liam Roberts (GK)
Luke Daniels (GK)
Isaiah Jones
Tommy Smith
Marc Bola
Ryan Giles
Anfernee Dijksteel
Dael Fry
Darragh Lenihan
Paddy McNair
Jonny Howson
Marcus Tavernier
Matt Crooks
Riley McGree
Duncan Whatmore
Josh Coburn
With 11 days to go until we play West Brom this is our squad - there's also Caolan Boyd-Munce that can be added in, possibly throw in some of the U23's, possibly Hayden Coulsen, Grant Hall and Darnell Fisher (if he's fit) to make the numbers up and then as a last resort the two jokers upfront Akpomb and Ikpeazu.
Liam Roberts (GK)
Luke Daniels (GK)
Isaiah Jones
Tommy Smith
Marc Bola
Ryan Giles
Anfernee Dijksteel
Dael Fry
Darragh Lenihan
Paddy McNair
Jonny Howson
Marcus Tavernier
Matt Crooks
Riley McGree
Duncan Whatmore
Josh Coburn
With 11 days to go until we play West Brom this is our squad - there's also Caolan Boyd-Munce that can be added in, possibly throw in some of the U23's, possibly Hayden Coulsen, Grant Hall and Darnell Fisher (if he's fit) to make the numbers up and then as a last resort the two jokers upfront Akpomb and Ikpeazu.
BoroMart
Well-known member
strikers for promoted teams:
- Mitrovic 22mill
- Solanke 17mill
- Grabban 6mill
BoroMart
Well-known member
5 players needed then. LCB, CM, 3x CF
Andalucía Andy
Member
I wish we got Assombalonga and Fletcher on loan
Humpty
Well-known member
It's more important that we focus getting the right players in by the end of August, than what the squad is going to look like for West Brom.