Trump V Biden

BoroMart said:
dismantling things is longer lasting than creating things, by it's very nature.
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Atlee and Lloyd George were dismantlers in your opinion? o_O Some mental gymnastics that. Like I said, the Blair gov was maybe a bit of a reprieve but it was a big chance for more lasting change wasted IMO.
 
SuperStu said:
Atlee and Lloyd George were dismantlers in your opinion? o_O Some mental gymnastics that. Like I said, the Blair gov was maybe a bit of a reprieve but it was a big chance for more lasting change wasted IMO.
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Well I was largely talking about Thatcher with that comment. Atlee and George weren't Tory's who like to dismantle, but the Tory's have certainly tried to roll back their gains. The Tories have tried to undermine Atlees great win for years.
 
Okay so what's to disagree with? A cherry picked highlights reel of the Blair years and it's all been rolled back already. Atlee's government's achievements are still causing the tories headaches today 70 years later.
 
smogontherhine said:
Let's take them one at a time....
1) Intricacies of the electoral system - there for both parties to use to their advantage
2) Massive amounts of money pumped into disenfranchising people in those battle ground states - by whom ? They'd had 8 years of Obama prior to Trump
3) Smear campaigns - what, you mean like Russiagate which turns out to be have been fabricated
4)Building a brand - the right know how to do this all right, maybe the Left should try it
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ok let's take this one at a time
1) Wrong - elements can be altered at State level so parties do not have equal control, additionally, at a Federal level Trump has placed people in charge of key resources e.g. USPS, to ensure he has an influence on the system
2) erm, if you know anything about US politics, then you know the money raised and spent is huge since the Citizens United ruling in 2010. Additionally, there have been hundreds of cases through the court system where the republicans have tried to implement additional rules for voting and removing polling stations etc. the level of disenfranchising has never been higher. And how does Obama come into this?
3) When was Russiagate proven to be fabricated? answer - never. All the evidence available says there was collaboration. It took the stooge Barr and a GOP controlled Senate to save him.
4) maybe the Left don't want to build a brand that attracts Facists and idiots?

anything else i can help you with?
 
Worked and lived with quite a few Americans over the years. Just recently did a lot for Exxonmobil. I've always defended them against the 'redneck gung-ho ignorant isolationist" generalisations they get but this Trump thing really has me beaten.
How any even semi-educted civilsed society could tolerate him is simply beyond me.
Why why why?
 
SuperStu said:
Okay so what's to disagree with? A cherry picked highlights reel of the Blair years and it's all been rolled back already. Atlee's government's achievements are still causing the tories headaches today 70 years later.
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They are but that was simply harder to dismantle due to the sheer scale and embededness of it. If the Tories of the late 50s early 60s had known what a problem child it would become for their ideologies they would have doubled efforts to get rid before it entered the national psyche.

Highlights reel? Pah, name me a better time for Brits than the late 90s
 
I thought the debate was shameful, two leaders of the greatest nation in the world acting like children and name calling.
Is this what the world is coming to?
 
Mr Maz said:
ok let's take this one at a time
1) Wrong - elements can be altered at State level so parties do not have equal control, additionally, at a Federal level Trump has placed people in charge of key resources e.g. USPS, to ensure he has an influence on the system
2) erm, if you know anything about US politics, then you know the money raised and spent is huge since the Citizens United ruling in 2010. Additionally, there have been hundreds of cases through the court system where the republicans have tried to implement additional rules for voting and removing polling stations etc. the level of disenfranchising has never been higher. And how does Obama come into this?
3) When was Russiagate proven to be fabricated? answer - never. All the evidence available says there was collaboration. It took the stooge Barr and a GOP controlled Senate to save him.
4) maybe the Left don't want to build a brand that attracts Facists and idiots?

anything else i can help you with?
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OK.. one at a time...
Let's start with Russiagate....
 
Mr Maz said:
ok let's take this one at a time
1) Wrong - elements can be altered at State level so parties do not have equal control, additionally, at a Federal level Trump has placed people in charge of key resources e.g. USPS, to ensure he has an influence on the system
2) erm, if you know anything about US politics, then you know the money raised and spent is huge since the Citizens United ruling in 2010. Additionally, there have been hundreds of cases through the court system where the republicans have tried to implement additional rules for voting and removing polling stations etc. the level of disenfranchising has never been higher. And how does Obama come into this?
3) When was Russiagate proven to be fabricated? answer - never. All the evidence available says there was collaboration. It took the stooge Barr and a GOP controlled Senate to save him.
4) maybe the Left don't want to build a brand that attracts Facists and idiots?

anything else i can help you with?
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Then let's look at how it's not just the republicans gaming the system....
 
LaPennaBianca said:
Why are you posting partisan youtube videos as if they're fact?



Project Veritas is a proven disinformation outfit funded by the Kochs.
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I'm well aware of who Project Veritas are and what their agenda is, the secret recordings are pretty damning though, CNN are hardly going to investigate this.
 
I blame Alan Sugar!
If The Apprentice wasn't so popular it wouldn't have gone to America and they wouldn't have chosen Trump.
Then maybe he wouldn't have become so popular with the ignorant.
 
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Uwefuchs said:
Yeah I know he tried to but just got nowhere with it, he just let Trump talk over him continuously.

.
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Frankly the Fox News guy running the debate should have controlled Trump who was just intent on deliberately disrupting Biden and not allowing him to get a sentence out without shouting him down. It was a shameful tactic and one that does American democracy no credit whatsoever.
 
Richyboro said:
I blame Alan Sugar!
If The Apprentice wasn't so popular it wouldn't have gomne to America and they wouldn't have chosen Trump.
Then maybe he wouldn't have become so pupular with the ignorant.
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fair point, can I throw in Reality TV in general? (excluding singing and variety shows)
 
Mr Maz said:
awww. nothing from Jones, Tucker or Qanon?

disappointed - but still waiting for you to make anything resembling a viable counter-response
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I assume that was aimed at me.

Let me give you an argument from the opposite side.
The New York Times, never supported a Republican candidate in my lifetime, publishes an article from an "unknown source" claiming Trump paid no tax in whatever years it said. This the Left take as the truth and Trump shouts "fake news"
Project Veritas with an opposite agenda investigates voter manipulation, the Left shout "fake news"

Do I think Trump has been dodgy with his taxes based on the NYT piece... probably, do I think there's been voter fraud in Minneapolis based on that video.... probably.

I'm far from trying to paint one side as clean and the other as dirty.... both sides are as bad as each other.
 
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